Episode 23
Meet Todd Ballard, former Chief Marketing Officer at GoPro
Todd Ballard, the former Chief Marketing Officer for GoPro possesses that unique combination of an entrepreneurial spirit, creativity, and authentic leadership. Todd spent 13 years at GoPro where he strategically directed the global marketing, brand development, and media vision for the company, taking it from a start-up to a publicly-traded $1B+ consumer electronics business. Todd shares his leadership insights and best practices to build high-performance teams in this fast-paced, high tech, growth environment.
In this episode, you’ll hear all about Todd’s leadership journey, his offsite meetings, and the “5 dependencies” approach, how he builds collaboration, and why “ building high ground for low days” is important to him.
02:09 – Todd’s story
05:50 – Leadership style evolution
07:16 – Avoiding silos
09:24 - What’s your job?
14:10 – The Tombstone test
22:36 – Authentic leadership
25:44 – The toxic employee
29:05 – Building high ground for low days
32:24 – Managing creatives
40:10 – Advice to your 25yr old self
Transcript
[Transcript]
Welcome to the finding gravitas podcast brought to you by gravitas Detroit, looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding gravitas is the podcast for you gravitas as the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership, junior podcast, host Jan Griffiths, that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur leadership, coach keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for gravity.
[:[00:00:51] In this episode, you'll make Todd Ballard previously, the chief marketing officer for GoPro Todd, is that unique combination [00:01:00] of the entrepreneurial spirit and an authentic leader. He started his entrepreneurial journey really early on selling toys to neighbors as a kid. Yes, that's right. You'll hear more about that in his story.
[:[00:01:45] And managing that growth when you take a company from a startup into what it is today, which is, uh, in excess of a billion dollars, consumer electronic and lifestyle brand, what does that growth really look like? And maintaining that innovative [00:02:00] creative type of environment. So let's get right into it.
[:[00:02:29] Um, I think I've really honed my career professionally by being at GoPro starting, um, working with GoPro 13 years ago, I had an agency for eight years. Um, GoPro was a client of mine and, um, ended up joining GoPro full-time in 2011. And in, um, since 2011 helped build the brand from basically a start up phase organization to.
[:[00:03:15] Um, recently have resigned from the organization and just starting to figure out what's next for me. So let's go back a couple of steps. So how do you become the GoPro guy? Where did you, where did you grow up? Todd was your story start? I grew up in, in Southern California, um, typical Southern California childhood, um, San Diego to be specific.
[:[00:04:02] Um, and, um, more or less stayed in Southern California. Um, you know, moved around a little bit that late teens. Um, went to a local community college and I'll say I was, I was never a studious individual. I never had the patience for school. Um, so I lasted about a year and a half in school before I decided to chase the entrepreneurial spirit and go the other direction, which of course scared the hell out of my parents.
[:[00:04:54] So, or a very early internet, I should say. So, um, I had a mail order [00:05:00] company, which was basically selling skateboards and snowboards and, um, lifestyle products. And that really kind of built my introduction into at the time action sports, um, built relationships with brands and athletes and media publications.
[:[00:05:50] I'm fascinated to know how your, the ship style changed and evolved as the company grew. Because as you said, you [00:06:00] started with them when they were basically a startup. And now they're in excess of a billion dollars in revenue. I mean, understanding how to manage yourself and your function and others doing that growth.
[:[00:06:32] What does success look like for them personally? And how do you work with them to help them achieve that success? And I think once you build that relationship, understand their dependencies, help understand what they're being held accountable for. It really breaks down silos and opens up an opportunity for a.
[:[00:07:16] You mentioned the word silo, the dreaded dreaded silo, the poison and corporate America today. Um, when you're a startup, I would imagine it's fairly easy to figure out who needs to do what and when, and work together and work on bring your strengths and your certain skillset to the table. But as you grow, there has to be some semblance of order and structure.
[:[00:08:01] Toxic politics could look like and how that could creep into the organization as it grows. So at what point do you realize, Hey, we got to get some structure in here, but we don't want it to the point that we get people in silos. Can you, I mean, I know that was probably some time ago, but could you speak to that?
[:[00:08:39] And I think that's ease that happens easily. Hap happened at GoPro, for sure. As we started to expand, bringing in many more employees into the organization, especially. More senior level managers. That's where silos start to happen. I believe. And again, for me, it was really taking the [00:09:00] time to understand who the individuals were, what they were brought in to do what success looks like for them and how I can be a part of that and vice versa.
[:[00:09:32] And help everybody understand what their job was. And again, as a fast-growing organization, a lot of times people lose sight of what their job is, what their role is within the organization. When you're wearing a lot of different hats, it's easy to get lost, um, in, in what you were originally hired to do and what you're doing today.
[:[00:10:17] And at the end of it, we got a couple of great things out of it. One, I felt you could see weight lifted off of people, this feeling of. I know what my job is, again, here at the organization, but we'd also be able to identify where the gaps were because every time there would be maybe a handful of things that nobody said they did that were critical for somebody to do.
[:[00:10:58] And I want you to [00:11:00] know that, um, and it just really bred this, this teamwork and this, this understanding and this level of respect to each other. So I think that was something that I continue to do that was really, really important. And then the great part of that is you can take it outside of your own department and, and share it with other parts of the organization.
[:[00:11:38] And just even just communicating to that created a, a deeper relationship. I think people, when they hear that, that, Hey, this person's success is dependent on me. You'd be amazed. How many people step up to that challenge and want to be part of that? I love that because it's simple, it's powerful, it's tremendously effective.
[:[00:12:19] And then they get mad at each other because they say, well, this guy was supposed to do that and he didn't do it. And I can't do this because he didn't give me that. And they don't take the time to put themselves in the other person's shoes and understand what they want. And you've mentioned. A couple of times already.
[:[00:12:57] Maybe it's because we all think that it's just, [00:13:00] well, you know, everybody's got an org structure and, um, We've got the metrics and we've got the, the, the job description, uh, you know, you just come in and you do your job and everything will be fine. And it's not, it's not about the structure and the metrics.
[:[00:13:45] And so many new people are coming into the organization that I had to find some way. To bring people together. Um, and it was, you know, it was very rudimentary of, Hey, write this down, we're all going to sit in the boardroom and we're going to [00:14:00] go person by person and have this conversation. So it was, yeah, that, that really just came out of a need.
[:[00:14:30] What is it you want to be remembered for personally and professionally? And how do you develop first? Part of that is understanding what your statement of purpose is. What do you want to be remembered for? Who, who do you want to be as a person? How does that translate to the personal side and professional side?
[:[00:15:08] And then we would create our own individual statement of purposes and actually have little laminated cards. One side would be a personal, the other side would be your team. Um, statement of purpose, just to kind of remind yourself of the idea of remind of reviewing. It was really, am I still, am I still staying true to the person I want to be?
[:[00:15:53] And it's, it's got, you got to allow people to adjust and adapt based off what that base description [00:16:00] might be or that base organizational structure is. So I think that flexibility and, and constant review of where you're at, um, as an individual, as a department, as an entire organization is important and.
[:[00:16:36] If you want me to talk about my purpose in life, let's say I started working for you, you know, GoPro or any company I just started working for you and you, you brought me into this meeting and he said, okay, we're going to do this tombstone tasks and talk about your purpose and mission in life. You know, I got to imagine some people would be a little uncomfortable bearing their soul if you will.
[:[00:17:30] And they'll tell you, you know, I, I was not afraid to show vulnerability in. Um, in myself and I don't think vulnerability is weakness at all, but I think it helps build trust and it allows other people to become vulnerable. And I think when you get to that point, you know, of, of an organization that isn't afraid to show who they are or what they think or what they might be scared of, or have anxiety around, um, it just [00:18:00] fosters better teamwork, better trust, more respect.
[:[00:18:27] You better be in showing that you are in charge. You're in control. You've got the answers, you know, when you're going down a path. And then I learned over the years, many years of being an industry, that that was the worst thing that you could. Possibly do that. If you really want to develop a high-performance team, you need to engage the hearts and minds of every single person on that team.
[:[00:19:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, like, like comment, comment, comment, but then when you actually get into the workplace, you know, that human ego kicks in and they're like, no, I'm, I'm the boss. I, I, I'm not going to show you that I'm falling apart. You particularly recently with the pandemic, right? What a perfect time to show vulnerability.
[:[00:19:44] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. These times have definitely, um, Demanded a vulnerability out of people. So I, which I think is a good thing. And, you know, I, I, I don't think being vulnerable shows any lack of, of [00:20:00] confidence or ability, but I, I think, you know, we learn, um, personally, professionally, spiritually through other people.
[:[00:20:35] And I, I think there is definitely more of a shift now to do that. You know, I remember the days when I would never have anybody on my team. On my Facebook account. Right, right. Cause that was totally separate. Yeah. And because I didn't know if, you know, if you have to fire somebody, if you have to, you know, have a difficult conversation with somebody, you didn't necessarily want to know the ins and outs of your personal knife.
[:[00:21:29] So I'm closing. Yes. Yeah. And I, and again, I, you know, I think. I'm the same way on faith. I think for me, Facebook, maybe where I would share more, you know, personal type of things. And, you know, it's an opportunity for family members that you're not around or friends that you don't see so often to see how your family is growing and, and achievements of your kids and things like that.
[:[00:22:11] I would have it to my house that are in my Facebook still. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's funny how the situation has evolved over time. But so here we are today and we're talking about authentic leadership, which of course is my favorite subject to talk about. So tell me, Todd, uh, there are many different facets and traits to authentic leadership, but what is authentic leadership to you?
[:[00:23:07] Um, and being comfortable and knowing what their role is within is an organization. What the steps are to succeed, you know, for what they're being held accountable for and how to grow. Um, I, I was very much a leader who gave a long leash to people and allowed, allowed individuals to push themselves. Um, maybe take on projects where.
[:[00:24:00] [00:24:00] For that environment to succeed again, I want to go back to this issue of safety, right? People have to feel safe right in that environment. Um, and GoPro is a company that I would associate very much with innovation, right? And innovation. You can't have innovation if you have fear of failure, because by definition, right, you, you try and try and try again and you fail and you keep going and keep going.
[:[00:24:54] Trying to innovate, potentially failing, trying again, seeing that [00:25:00] success sharing in the, in the ups, sharing in the downs. And you know, that brings in the word vulnerability again. I think that that really builds that safe zone for people because they're seeing you do it. They're seeing their peers experience and you're being open and about it throughout the entire process.
[:[00:25:44] You know, you've had to bring in people from the outside is not behaving in this way. That creates a safe environment to support, trust, to show vulnerability. You bring in a, an employee and they turn out to be toxic. [00:26:00] What, what do you, what do you do? And let's say their performance is spectacular, but they just, they do not understand collaborative teamwork.
[:[00:26:27] And I would, I would say they are failing as a, as a leader if that's the case. I, in those instances, it's, it's a reflection of me. I spent a lot of time working with that person to, to see if I can help change them and help, help transform them, I guess is a better way of saying it. And ultimately, if, if they're toxic, they shouldn't be part of the organization and we have to manage them out.
[:[00:27:13] And I think that builds more trust. And I think more feeling of safe if, if. The rest of the organization sees how you're treating those toxic people within the organization. If they say, wow, this person is not what our COO is all about. And they're dealing with it that says a lot and goes far within the organization as well.
[:[00:27:54] To make sure that they understand, but then you have to take the action. And I've seen many [00:28:00] leaders over my career. Not take that action because they continue to maintain Oh, but they get the numbers, you know, but look at the performance, but you can't do that because it is, it is a poison in the organization.
[:[00:28:42] So I that's, that's something you gotta be a little bit more delicate with. Let's talk about energy. It's one of my favorite subjects to talk about. I love high energy, but I'm also a human being. I know that, and there are days when my energy is just off the charts, uh, but they're all [00:29:00] low days too. And you have to manage that as a leader to manage yourself.
[:[00:29:24] And one of the things he talks about is being an elite performer and how elite performers act and how they practice, how they work and how they live. And. One of the things that I really took out of his talk was this idea of building high ground for low days and premise outfit of it is when you know, you're in a very high functioning, quick changing organization.
[:[00:30:06] When they're looking at you of, Hey, we're working long days and long nights and how you're not maybe protecting us from other parts of the organization that are asking for some of these things, this idea of building high ground, which basically means how allowing your team to. Take time off, spend time with family, attend their children's recitals and games and things like that.
[:[00:30:47] And by allowing them to have that high ground that they can go to, it makes those. Low moments a little bit more palatable. Yeah. I love that. And I've never worked for a high-tech company. [00:31:00] Uh, but I would imagine we know when you've got a lot of creative people and you've got a product, you get innovation and all these things happening so quickly.
[:[00:31:31] Flex along with that. As a leader, I think it's important to recognize how your team is doing personally. And if they are, you know, obviously a, a lot of employees want to please their boss and, um, Perform and show their output. And, um, it's important to identify when maybe somebody's burned the candle at both ends.
[:[00:32:15] So, um, giving them that opportunity to take some time off when, when those demands aren't there definitely helps. Yeah. So we've brought up this topic of creatives and you're a CMO you're, that's a subject and a function that you're very, very much familiar with. It's all new to me, this idea of marketing it's the first time I've ever really touched it in my life is the last two years since I launched the business.
[:[00:33:13] And you cannot, even though there's this idea of, of timing, you can't put them on a tight timeline. So maybe some guidance for other leaders out there who are dealing with creatives and how to manage and lead creatives. I mean the old adage business kills creativity I think is, is very real well. And I think, you know, there's a reason in the entertainment industry.
[:[00:33:54] It's, it's important to find the yin and the yang of, of that and bringing it [00:34:00] together. But I think you're right. You have to give creatives the space and room to be creative, which is what they're good at and not. From my experience, what we did is really tried not to bog them down with the business side of it.
[:[00:34:32] And in some parameters of. What the project needs to be when it needs to be done and, and the message or story it needs to tell. I think by waiting down a creative with the, with the business side of it, isn't smart either. You need to have a, like a set up a producer and a director, or a really strong project manager.
[:[00:35:17] And then this takes me back to your earlier comment. It's about taking the time to understand what success means and what that looks like and what the individual needs. And I think that business has evolved over time and w. Many years ago, we had this idea that there was sort of a cookie cutter approach to people, right?
[:[00:36:01] And you have to lead them in a, in a different way, every single person you have on the team. And there is this sort of, um, I think the recognition that that's okay now. But it's taken time to get there. It sounds like though, you've you had that right from the very beginning. When you look at an organization, yes.
[:[00:36:38] And then within a department there's groups within the department and they might have their own goals and then individuals might have their own individual goals. And then the silos just become multiply and multiply and multiply. So. It's it's important to understand. Uh, for me it was important to know, right.
[:[00:37:20] And then you dig that even deeper into, into the personal level. And that's where you really start to understand that there might be five people that work within a department, but they might have slightly different goals. Between personally and professionally, what they're trying to achieve, what success looks like.
[:[00:37:59] Yeah. [00:38:00] That's very true. Let's talk about people who have perhaps influenced your leadership style or people that you, you look at what you see, um, with these people and some thing about what they do really resonates with you. So are there two or three people that you look to that you say, yeah, I kind of liked the way they do that early in, in GoPro, previous, uh, head of marketing was somebody that I definitely looked up to.
[:[00:38:48] People always ask who's your influence and, and, uh, you know, it's hard for me to pick a person or two people. I think I've. Throughout my career. I've tried to take things from lots of different people, dozens of people, strengths that they've [00:39:00] had. I've I've tried to pull, not everything from one person, but little traits from a lot of different people to ultimately design something that works best for me.
[:[00:39:37] And how do I focus on those strengths a little bit? And it's yeah, I wouldn't say there's one or two people. There's probably dozens of people that's come from. Yeah. And I always tell students, uh, when I'm working with, uh, Wayne state students, you're in Detroit, but don't, don't just look at one person you're looking at different people and think about how they make you feel, what really resonates with you.
[:[00:40:29] Believe in people. Invest in people, um, and everything else will work out. If you do that, I think invest in people, follow your heart and, um, give people respect. And one thing I try to do now that I've always tried to do. And, um, there's been times that I haven't been great at it, but I just try to respond to everybody and people email me or message me.
[:[00:41:08] And, and I would tell my 25 or self 25 year old self that to respond to everybody that emails you or messages you in some way, shape or form. Um, she, yeah, it just goes back to investing in people. Yeah. I think that, uh, 25 rules typically not under huge generalization, but. Don't really understand the power of networking.
[:[00:41:50] It, it happens. It might not be today. It might not be tomorrow. It might not be a year from now, but when you build relationships, it's an ebb and flow of this idea of [00:42:00] reciprocity, which I think makes for a great life. Quite frankly. Absolutely does. One last thing I'll add is this idea of imposter syndrome.
[:[00:42:31] Self-confidence and it's kind of that feeling of you're in this position of power and you almost feel like you. Trick somebody and you're in this position. And what if people really found out that you don't know what you're talking about? You don't know what you're doing, which isn't the case, obviously, but there's, there is a, it's a real imposter syndrome is real.
[:[00:43:09] And that self doubt can kick in a little bit and really affect you. I think it's important to understand it when it happens, um, and work through it and know it's okay. And then a lot of successful people have dealt with the imposter syndrome and you know, it it's okay. And work through it and carry on.
[:[00:43:46] Yeah, and you're right. People don't realize it's, it's a thing. It really is a thing. Um, I had a guy that worked for me once who, uh, I had given an opportunity to take on more responsibility and I knew [00:44:00] he absolutely was 100% capable of it, but because he didn't have the stuff. Specific skills needed or didn't have that, you know, the specific path that he needed to experience didn't feel comfortable with it and was starting to feel a little bit of imposter syndrome.
[:[00:44:53] And it's by understanding and doubting yourself a little bit is okay. A little bit, right. It's okay. [00:45:00] To, to. Expect more out of yourself, but don't let it control you and don't let it ultimately affect you personally, or to a point where it's affecting your performance. Yeah. These stories that we tell ourselves in our heads often lead to limiting beliefs and one, uh, one area that that manifests is in the area of, um, elite performance high-performance athletes.
[:[00:45:47] You know, I can only run this. I can only jump this high. I can only do this. Right. I don't see myself, you know, in a, a world class sports team or whatever the situation is. I've asked them, [00:46:00] what is it, how do you break through that in your head? Cause we're all dealing with it at some level. Um, from your experience, what have you learned from these high-performance athletes to, to help really break through those limiting beliefs?
[:[00:46:37] And I think that was the biggest part of it, but how you deal with that is the important part. And it's true. I mean, the, your inner dialogue can really tear you apart if, if you allow it to, so you really need to be cognizant of it. You, you need to be aware of what that inner dialogue is and how you're speaking to yourself.
[:[00:47:15] Um, that's a, that's a big step by far knowing, knowing that everybody deals with it helps you feel a little better about, um, knowing it's you're going to get through it. That's exactly it, Todd, it's about knowing that you can retrain your mind and you can rewrite this narrative. That's running in your head.
[:[00:47:58] Right. And, [00:48:00] uh, I ran my first 5k because I had, I had to, I had to tell them myself it's okay, you're not going to die. It's okay. You know, you can do this, but I had to push through a lot of limiting beliefs that had been in my head for decades and that. You know, it's a simple example, but it taught me that I have the power to do this.
[:[00:48:44] Become better leaders and create high-performance work teams. Right. And so, you know, here we are, you did it. You figured it out. Thanks ducks. So let's talk about this. Let's go back to your, your tombstone, um, idea. And [00:49:00] I want to put that question to you. So what is your legacy Todd? Well, that's a, that's a deep one.
[:[00:49:36] Helping them build a roadmap to become better human beings themselves. And you're embarking on a new chapter in your life. So I have to ask the obvious question. Why was you leave the CMO position at GoPro? Yeah. I think a lot of people looked at me a little sideways in the middle of a pandemic, you know, that I, um, [00:50:00] laid myself off more or less.
[:[00:50:29] I've had just thinking about it from a business perspective. To me, it was very clear that it didn't make sense for me to stay. Um, and, and I think a lot of it was because I felt very strong, the team that I had built over the last 10 years and their ability to, to carry the torch, moving forward. There's a lot of trust I had in, in that team.
[:[00:51:19] So if it's consulting advisory opportunities or another full-time role, uh, leading a team elsewhere, I'm kind of open-minded, but I'm going to be very picky about what, what that thing or things are. So I'm excited. Obviously, that's a courageous decision to, uh, to leave a company after 10 years. However, I, I believe that there's a skill that you develop when you move from company to company.
[:[00:52:10] Yeah. On that opportunity. And I, I'm speaking from my own personal experience and I've moved from company to company over the years and I've enjoyed every minute of it. And each company has been different and this, this, uh, skill that I've developed to be able to sort of take the pulse of. The company, you know, when, when you, you start with a new company, I love that.
[:[00:52:55] Believe that you are 100% and authentic leader [00:53:00] and you are a leader with gravitas. There's no question. Oh, thank you. I appreciate the kind words and yeah, I'm very excited to see what's next. And like you said, I, I agree. It's, it's very easy to, um, get comfortable and complacent within an organization. I mean, I, I had a great.
[:[00:53:51] So yeah, I'm, um, I'm looking forward to, to whatever that might be. I th I think it will. I think the future is very bright indeed. And it has [00:54:00] been an absolute pleasure having you on the show and sharing your leadership insights with our audience. Thank you, Todd. Thank you. Appreciate it. If you enjoyed listening to this podcast and you found something of value that will help you on your quest for your gravitas, then please share with your friends and colleagues and subscribe.
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