Leadership Insights for the EV Supply Chain: Deconstructing the Jeremy McCool Interview with Carolyn Sauer

[Transcript]

Jan Griffiths: 00:08

Welcome to the automotive leaders podcast, where we help you prepare for the future by sharing stories, insights and skills from leading voices in the automotive world with a mission to transform this industry together. I'm your host Jan Griffiths, that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales. With over 35 years of experience in our beloved auto industry, and a commitment to empowering fellow leaders to be their best authentic selves. Stay true to yourself, be you and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership. Let's dive in.

Jan Griffiths: 00:58

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the automotive leaders podcast and today we are going to deconstruct the episode with Jeremy McCool, in case you missed it. Jeremy McCool is the CEO and founder of HEVO, the wireless EV charging company. And Jeremy has a lot to say about leadership, leadership traits of the future. And his experience as a tech startup in the EV space entering into what we know and love as traditional OEMs. And as I thought about this, I thought now who would be the perfect person to deconstruct this interview with me and go a little deeper. And I thought very quickly of my friend and colleague, Carolyn Sauer. Now, Carolyn is the Director of Business Development for Schaltbau. And, Schaltbau is a company, yes, very much entrenched in the EV battery and technology space. And we'll hear about that in just a moment. But Carolyn has a wealth of experience, both in traditional automotive, and now in the electrification space. And that's why I picked her. Let's not talk about the fact that she is a whole lot of fun and has a tremendously strong and bubbly personality. Carolyn Sauer, welcome to the show.

Carolyn Sauer: 02:24

Thank you, Jan, it's great to be here. I appreciate you having me.

Jan Griffiths: 02:29

Tell us a little bit about your background. First of all, they hit the highlights for us, if you would, your traditional automotive background.

Carolyn Sauer: 02:37

Sure. So I've been in the automotive industry for just over 20 years. The bulk of my experience was at two different automotive lighting suppliers, North American Lighting and Hella, where I was responsible at various times for marketing or sales or both. And now I am at schaltbau, which is a company that is 93 years old, and has traditionally supplied to the rail industry in the last decade or so. They've been breaking into the electrification market because of their expertise and high voltage DC applications. So we're a traditional company with a great strong history that's acting in some respects like a startup.

Jan Griffiths: 03:25

Yeah. And that's why I think you're the perfect person to deconstruct Jeremy McCool, right, because you are right there in the space. He's coming at it from a startup, you know, never worked in automotive a day in his life background, but you're coming at it faced with the same issues, but with a lot of experience in that environment.

Carolyn Sauer: 03:43

Yeah, I could definitely relate to a lot of what Jeremy was saying in his interview, there were so many valid points and things that he said that I could relate to. And the first one that stood out to me where I really felt fully validated, is how to get into and talk with the right people at the traditional OEMs. Because when I was in lighting, it was very clear. You can look on LinkedIn, you could call someone, anyone you talk to you in the building that you worked in, they all knew this is who you talk to you for lighting for purchasing. This is who you talk to you for lighting for engineering. And now working in a space where we have a product that fits into the battery distribution unit of an electric vehicle, or it goes into a charging station or a test bench system. There are multiple groups within each traditional OEM that are responsible for aspects of the electrification process. And trying to get to the right person now, as Jeremy mentioned, is really tricky.

Jan Griffiths: 04:52

Yeah. And he said, what I asked him to describe what it felt like he said, antiquated now you are experienced in the way So for automotive, so you didn't feel that stark difference as much as he did. But what's interesting, what I'm hearing you say now, and I don't think I got this earlier is, it's the actual technology itself, the product itself that isn't falling into these nice, neat little silos. That's correct.

Carolyn Sauer: 05:20

Our product fits into many applications. There's a whole different group within each company that works on testing, that works on the battery distribution, unit development that works on the charging structure. There are multiple groups, multiple people, the standards are not really entirely clear, yet, we're using a lot of legacy specs and requirements. And that's starting to evolve, as we're all learning more about this space. And so it does make it very tricky to find the right person when I was speaking with Cathy Fisher, at the OESA event, November, you know, I told her, I talked to everybody, what is my strategy, it's to talk to everybody, because you don't know who's interested, who's having a problem, who you can help until you really start talking and digging into it.

Jan Griffiths: 06:11

Sounds like the OEMs have got a lot of work to do to figure out how they engage with suppliers, whether it's new high tech suppliers, like Jeremy coming in, or whether it's taking a technology and existing technology from another industry, which is the space that you're in and applying it to automotive, just for our listeners, and for my own education. Tell me again, exactly what the product is at Schaltbau.

Carolyn Sauer: 06:39

Sure, so we do switches, contactors, and high voltage connectors. The main product that we are selling to the traditional OEMs is bidirectional DC contactor, and it basically makes or breaks the power. So for example, if you're driving in your electric vehicle, there's an emergency situation or a crash or something happens, our contactor would shut off the power.

Jan Griffiths: 07:08

Looking at their traditional purchasing processes coming out of an OEM or even a tier one. You know, we talk about speed and agility, and we want to be able to engage with technology as quickly as possible and integrate it and bring it on board and scale it. But it sounds like we're light years away from that, yet at the OEM level, what what advice would you have for an OEM looking at their sourcing process right now?

Carolyn Sauer: 07:35

I have a lot of contacts in OEM purchasing, and a lot of the MEMA townhall events. They're all stating that they really want to embrace new suppliers and open up their channels and avenues for purchasing. And yet, reaching out to them directly. It's very different because either there's no response at all, or it's a very delayed response. And I think in part, it's got to be because they're just overwhelmed with everyone wanting to get in there and show their product. And so a lot of it is education. So part of my advice is for them to be a little bit more open to new products that they haven't used before. And to understand the benefits of those products, especially as it relates to, you know, consumer features and consumer safety, because that's that's what we're all about, you know, the our product is a safety feature, and in a lot of respects can be safer than what's being used. But no one knows that they'll you know, not here not in the US not not yet. We're working on it.

Jan Griffiths: 08:46

Yeah, and you're right. And that's right in line with what Jeremy said, right, he said that OEMs need to take a more coaching, nurturing, approach. And from the supplier side, it's more like consultative selling. So it really is that collaborative relationship that we've talked about for decades and never actually figured out how to do it in this industry. I've never seen it happen. It's always it's always been a level of an adversarial relationship. But here's the tech startup CEO saying, No, we need to change this. It needs to be more nurturing, more coaching, more consultative selling kind of approach. I'm assuming you would agree with that.

Carolyn Sauer: 09:25

Yeah, so I've always been a fan of the consultative approach to selling because again, I really look at it as an opportunity to help solve a problem, you know, whether it's in the industry or, or elsewhere, but that's really the approach to take, you know, I like to understand what the customer needs are, what are their requirements? If the requirements seem outdated, I like to know who can I go and talk to to say, Hey, did you have you considered this? They may say yes, and we're not interested. And that's great. Just to make sure, though, that we've had that conversation But we're all really working towards the best, safest outcome, the vehicles.

Jan Griffiths: 10:07

Let's talk about the leadership aspect of Jeremy McCool. What struck you about his leadership?

Carolyn Sauer: 10:12

Jeremy McCool is fascinating. He started off talking about running his own business when he was seven years old and having to get a business license. Who does that? I was babysitting at 12. I wasn't out, selling my services and building it up so big that I had to get a business license. It's just amazing how much conviction he has and has had from such a young age. It's really impressive.

Jan Griffiths: 10:43

Yeah, I think he's one of those people that once he puts his mind to something, no matter what it is, once he's all in, and he believes in it, and he's got that purpose around it, then the conviction follows. And it happens.

Carolyn Sauer: 10:56

Yes, that is definitely what I got out of listening to him.

Jan Griffiths: 11:00

And what really makes my heart sing Carolyn is the fact that he is a great example of future leadership in this industry. And what I'm seeing is that people like Jeremy McCall, they're not trying to fit a mold of corporate leadership, you and I grew up in a world where there was a definite mold of corporate leadership, that we had to follow you in the sales field, I was in the procurement field, I was taught to be more adversarial, the more aggressive you could be with a supplier, the better. And there was definitely a way of behaving and more of a command and control style of leadership, that the evidence around me or Everything was happening around me told me that if I employ that leadership style, I will be successful. And that is not the case anymore. There's no mold for leadership, as I see with millennials and Gen Z coming up. They believe in a leadership model that resonates with them. They couldn't care less what their fathers did. They're going to do what they believe to be right. Did you get that from Jeremy? Or are you seeing that in the industry?

Carolyn Sauer: 12:10

I completely get that from Jeremy and I am seeing more of that in the industry, I think that it's become necessary, not only just after COVID, with people being more remote and detached and not being able to come together face to face as often. But in other ways where leaders are becoming a little bit more empathetic to personal issues that come up or being a little bit more open to listening to the next generation sharing their ideas.

Jan Griffiths: 12:42

Yes, and I think all of that, too, comes back to the company brand. And one thing I noticed about Jeremy is that he brings his purpose, he's been able to articulate the purpose and structure it around certain values, that the hallmark of his brand of his company. And he did that in a very clever way.

Carolyn Sauer: 13:06

Even with his just the name of the company, you wouldn't think so much thought would go into HEVO but it stands for Hybrid Electrical Vehicle Optimization. And if he had stopped there, I was already impressed because that's exactly what he's doing. And there aren't many companies where their name says exactly what they do. But he didn't stop there. He went on even further and aligned their core values with those letters. So honesty, empathy, vision, and optimism and everything he does. And everything his company does, is centered on those core values.

Jan Griffiths: 13:47

He's created this brand identity. And as human beings, we have an identity that we want to be there's a person inside of us that we are trying to be like, in our own heads. It's our own personal identity. And it is that identity that drives behavior. So taking that time to clearly clarify your company's identity, your company's values, and not just throw together some shit on a PowerPoint and stick it up on a conference room wall and say, oh, yeah, here's our values. And here's our brand. And really, nobody knows what the hell it means. You've never seen that. Have you?

Carolyn Sauer: 14:26

No, no, I haven't seen a lot of that shit in the PowerPoint in the last 20 some years. Okay, maybea lttle bit.

Jan Griffiths: 14:36

But I can't imagine him doing something like that, you know, everything he does has purpose and meaning and conviction.

Carolyn Sauer: 14:45

It does. It does. It was really just such an incredible interview to listen to.

Jan Griffiths: 14:52

What about the way that he describes leadership and influence, what struck you there?

Carolyn Sauer: 14:57

That was another fascinating story. and descriptions. So a leader, a true leader is able to influence people. But his point is, it's, it's a lot easier for someone to influence you to do something positive. It's not always easy to influence someone to do something challenging or perceived as negative, or outside of their comfort zone. You know, and he took that experience directly from, you know, when he had to go to Baghdad, and he was, he was in the army, and had that experience where he had to encourage people to run towards the bullets, which is not something I think most of us have heard of before. Usually, you hear a bullet, you're running away from it, but his job was to get people to run towards them. And honestly, that is the kind of leader I think any of us would want to work for, is someone that can really push you outside of your comfort zone, really get behind what they are seeing as and laying out as their vision and just going for it.

Jan Griffiths: 16:08

Yeah. And boy in this industry, we often have to run towards the bullets. There's no no question about it, and the leader that has the vision, the conviction, and the ability to create that safe space, that you want to be there with them there. That's the difference. That's what inspiring leadership is all about. It's like no matter what happens, I don't care what battle we're going into what war we're going into fight I'm in. That's the kind of leadership that we need for the future. And that's what he does. That's how he inspires people.

Carolyn Sauer: 16:41

Absolutely. And if he didn't have me at that point, I was definitely hooked when he mentioned that his favorite genre of music is old school hip hop, because now I'm totally going into the bullets with. In fact, I may need to throw down a challenge for Jeremy McCool.

Jan Griffiths: 16:59

Oh, do it.

Carolyn Sauer: 17:01

So I think that I need to challenge him to a corporate karaoke duel, where the music genre is, is old school hip hop, it is absolutely my favorite. And I don't want to hear that it's tricky, Jeremy McCool. I want you to figure out a way that we can. We can do this and have fun with it. Because there's just really no greater equalizer among leaders than when you're doing something out of your comfort zone like singing karaoke.

Jan Griffiths: 17:33

Well said, yes. That's the first time anybody's thrown a challenge out on this podcast. Of course, it would happen now. And so, of course,

Carolyn Sauer: 17:43

I'm following you in a bullet so you can do a karaoke duel with me?

Jan Griffiths: 17:48

That's right. That's right. But I do think that, and that's one of the reasons why I added that personal section on to the end of the podcast interviews, because great leaders, truly authentic leaders are perfectly fine with sharing some of the personal side and showing that some vulnerability. And that's something that we haven't seen a lot of prior to COVID. And in the old school automotive leadership model, would you say?

Carolyn Sauer: 18:17

Oh, for sure. And even just because I love this example, so much. There are times I would get in my vehicle and going out to lunch with colleagues, and forget that on the way into work, I had been rocking out to some old school hip hop, and they get in the car, and it's blasting and they're just like, who are you? But you know, sometimes there's just something quirky about you that you like to do or that you'd like to listen to just to relax and get outside yourself a little bit. So. So yeah, I love it. I love it when leaders are really honest about who they are and open. And it really makes it feel comfortable for others to do the same thing. You know, I don't want my team members to come into work every day and feel like they have to be a different person at work than they are at home. I want them to be their authentic self all the time, no matter what that may look or feel like and it's not going to look and feel the same way. Every day. You don't know what's going on in someone's life. But when you're working with me, be who you are.

Jan Griffiths: 19:19

What did you think Carolyn about Jeremy's comments about the 80/20 rule on meetings?

Carolyn Sauer: 19:25

Oh, I loved it. I really can relate so much to that comment. He basically was saying that in his company, they only will allow up to 20% of their time to be spent in meetings. And having been at companies where it is a meeting marathon almost every day. I so appreciated that he said, The reason is, if you have all of these meetings booked, there's no room for creativity. There's no room for new thoughts. There's no room to brainstorm and talk with your colleagues. And honestly, when you're trying to solve problems, when how often do you do it in a meeting versus in a brainstorming session or when you're just chatting with your co workers. So I love the idea of having free time to think and be creative, and really work on solving problems and not just talking about things.

Jan Griffiths: 20:22

You're so right. It's not just talking about it for the sake of it or talking about it, because this particular meeting is on the schedule on this day, every month. And this is the agenda topic. It's more of a status meeting, or it's somebody trying to prove a point or show how strong they are, or how knowledgeable they are, and everybody else eye rolling. In the in the meeting, here, those are not needings. Those are a complete waste of time and effort.

Carolyn Sauer: 20:48

There's grandstanding, there's blaming, there's just you know, chest pounding. I don't have time for that. That's great. You did a great job, let's all pat you on the back. But can we do it as we're walking down the hall and not in an hour.

Jan Griffiths: 21:03

Along with that, too, goes the office space in the office environment, I was recently at an OEM in Tennessee, and I was looking around their corporate office. And it was just a lovely mix of traditional conference rooms, because there is a need for traditional conference room. And then smaller, more collaborative spaces. And then almost like little nooks with tables, you know, where you could maybe grab somebody and I have a quick like 10 minute conversation about something. Because that's, that's where the magic happens. It's in the gray area. To me, it's not during the actual meeting time. It's the conversations before and after. Why is that? Because people are more relaxed. So then why don't we just structure our meetings around that instead of the other way?

Carolyn Sauer: 21:51

Exactly. And I learned that fortunately, very early in my career, when I was at North American lighting, the Japanese culture has a term called Nemawashi. And it basically is to pre align with individuals and have those discussions before you get into the meeting. And I of course, learned this the hard way, because I thought at that point that meetings were where the decisions were made. And we would get in these meetings, and I'd be proving my case, and then we wouldn't go the direction I recommended. And I talked to my boss after an ask why. And he would say it was decided before this meeting. And I was like, what? what do you mean? How was that possible. But it really was a really valuable lesson in knowing your audience, understanding all of the dynamics behind a problem, and talking to individuals ahead of time not just getting into a meeting and ordering court and saying this is what we're going to do. Again, I was just I was very lucky to learn that early on. But I can't emphasize that enough that I really think those individual conversations are very important.

Jan Griffiths: 22:59

Yeah. And that's not to be confused with a pre alignment meeting. Some companies have pre alignment meetings to align for the regular meeting, which that totally blows my mind. I find it a few of those as a big difference. Aligning on perspective and positioning and making sure that people understand that the decision or your position. That's one thing. That's what you're that's what you're talking about, you know, the other person who really supports that. And this is again, from a Japanese OEM background is Dr. Andy Palmer. He talks a lot about Nemawashi too?

Carolyn Sauer: 23:36

Oh, yes.

Jan Griffiths: 23:37

Yeah, it's. I think it's critical. To me, it's kind of like common sense relationship building.

Carolyn Sauer: 23:42

It is, you know, no one wants to feel like they're not being heard, or they're not being listened to, when you're talking about an issue that affects so many people. Why not treat them like the human that they are? And have the conversation? I mean, you wouldn't walk into a meeting with your family and tell them, This is what we're doing, and you're gonna love it. And here's the reasons why. No, you would be talking to them individually. What do you what do you think about this? What do you think we should do? You know, everyone's in it together. Everyone wants to solve the problem. Everyone wants to have a positive outcome. But there's different ways to go about it. And by having those individual discussions, you know, you're learning too, there may be perspectives you hadn't even thought about. So just the listening and trying to understand what you're really deciding, is just so important. So it's great that come those companies like you were describing how those spaces now to have those kinds of conversations.

Jan Griffiths: 24:36

Yeah, I haven't been to the HEVO office in Brooklyn, but I would imagine it's very much setup and more modern co working kind of environment.

Carolyn Sauer: 24:45

Oh, I'm sensing a road trip. I think we need to go check that out. Maybe when we do our karaoke competition.

Jan Griffiths: 24:52

I think that's a great idea. One of the things that struck me with Jeremy McCool is that he really has no fear There is no fear to walk into the unknown. And I'll quote from the podcast interview, he says, I didn't have any resources. I wasn't an engineer, I didn't have money. I didn't have investors lining up. I didn't have a team, I didn't have anything. He said, he just thought, you know what, I see what these guys have. And I think I can do better. So this is after he had established his purpose around energy, he started to do some investigation into what was happening in the space of evey charging. And I thought his approach was very interesting. What do you think?

Carolyn Sauer: 25:35

I thought it was fascinating. I think, first of all, how brave to do that. I think he called himself naive in that in that in that phrase, but how brave to go out and do that, and to know that you have such conviction for something that you're going to make it happen anyway, whether you have the money, the resources, the knowledge that these people have, he literally just went out, talk to people learned what he needed to do. And now he's doing it. It's really a testament to who he is as a person. And again, I go back to the fact that, you know, at seven years old, he was getting his own business license. I mean, who's gonna doubt that guy when he walks in and says, I'm gonna make this better? Not me. Great, let's do it. How can I help?

Jan Griffiths: 26:24

Yeah, I agree. He really is he took the time to go out there and understand, he knew there was a need for this product. But he wanted to make sure that he understood it. But he wasn't afraid to say it that he didn't have the engineering skills behind him. He didn't have the resources behind him, he went out and did it anyway.

Carolyn Sauer: 26:45

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I wish I could have been in his backpack or something that's listening in. I would love to know how those conversations started, how we even thought about who he wanted to go and talk to, because I feel like there are probably some really valuable lessons in his approach to that, that a lot of us can apply today in, you know, trying to get new customers trying to visit existing customers. That mindset, that thought process of, I'm here because I want to learn and I want to help you.

Jan Griffiths: 27:14

But I do think it is part of leadership, the old leadership model is you don't venture out into an area or into something, if you don't have all the data or all the facts, all the knowledge, all the skills behind you. And it's if there's a lesson here, it's to say that it's okay. Just go out there and do it anyway.

Carolyn Sauer: 27:36

Absolutely. And it gets really right back to the whole authenticity. I don't have to go in and pretend I know everything. And I have the answers. I'm really trying to learn. I'm really trying to understand what is what is the problem, and how to impact it in a positive way.

Jan Griffiths: 27:52

So one of the questions I like to ask in the deconstruction episodes is simply this. Would you work for Jeremy McCool?

Carolyn Sauer: 27:59

Oh, my gosh, I hope my boss isn't listening right now. But yeah, when can I say that I say that kind of jokingly. I do actually work for a really great boss, Jim Tullo, our president at Schaltbau, North America is amazing to work with. Jeremy McCool presents a really strong case for someone that really likes that kind of leadership style and idea. He's a great example that we all can learn from whether we're older or younger, to say, this is how you lead a team of people. This is what the vision is, are you behind it, then let's do it. And I I really love his energy and his conviction.

Jan Griffiths: 28:41

Yeah, I'm all in with Jeremy McCool, too. And it just makes my heart sing that this is the leadership of the future in this industry. Carolyn, we have a future knowing that there are people like Jeremy leading these companies, don't you think?

Carolyn Sauer: 28:57

For sure. I want to be that McCool when I grow up.

Jan Griffiths: 29:02

Okay, well, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. And we'll bring you back again for another deconstruction episode. What do you think about that?

Carolyn Sauer: 29:12

That sounds great. Thank you so much. And I'm just gonna go out with last words. It's tricky to rock around to rock around that's right on time.

Jan Griffiths: 29:24

Love it. Love it. Love it.

Jan Griffiths: 29:31

Thank you for listening to the automotive leaders podcast. Click the Listen link in the show notes to subscribe for free on your platform of choice. And don't forget to download the 21 traits of authentic leadership PDF by clicking on the link below. And remember, stay true to yourself, be you and lead with Gravitas, the hallmark of authentic leadership