Meet Mark Bole, Senior Executive at General Motors, Head of V2X & Battery Solutions

[Transcript]

Jan Griffiths: 00:37

Have you ever thought about what it would take to practice authentic leadership in a traditional OEM auto company? Specifically, General Motors, how do you thrive as an authentic leader at General Motors, not just survive, thrive.

Jan Griffiths: 00:58

Today, you'll meet a man who knows exactly how to do that he's been practicing authentic leadership his entire career. And he is a self-confessed servant leader. And he has built a raving fan culture that all leaders want. Meet Mark Bole. Mark is a senior-level executive currently operating in the Evie space with GM but a deep history in GM global financial operations. He has a tremendous wealth of experience and cultural knowledge, living and working in the US, in Europe and Latin America and Asia. And he believes in bringing your whole self to work. He gets it when it comes to cognitive diversity. And he will share with us exactly how he encourages and creates an inclusive collaborative environment. He knows what it takes to make people feel safe. If we want to get ideas from people, and we want them to bring everything they have to work. This is the kind of leadership that we need more of, in his words. It's not the number of people that I lead. It's the number of people that I impact. And he's doing it. Mark, welcome to the show. Hey,

Mark: 02:27

Jan, thank you for having me. And thank you for what you do. The positive impact you have on a lot of people is fantastic. So thanks for everything.

Jan Griffiths: 02:34

Well, thank you. And what a great way to intro you talk about impact on people. Boy, you know, it's not very often I come across such a large number of people that work in an organization that rave about their boss. But you have a following you most certainly do, which is why I had to have you on this podcast. You are indeed an authentic leader. I know that for a fact from the people that work for you. And I did not expect that the guy at the top of GM Financial would be that guy. I know. I know. I was attaching labels, and you shouldn't do that. But, hey! I got it wrong. Again, I actually got it wrong. Again, I get it wrong. A couple you know quite a few times, actually. So here you are. You're an authentic leader.

Jan Griffiths: 03:28

Our listeners want to know what that means to you. But I want to start from the very beginning. So Mark Bole, what is your story?

Mark: 03:35

Those are very kind words for an introduction, Jan. So, thank you again for that. Fantastic! I'd like to know who that following is because I probably should pay him off. But I will never tell. So you know, I would have never ever tell. But it's great. You've heard and so who am I? And what's my story, I just just first of all, in the line of introduction that you gave me, I do view myself as a servant leader. I love purpose. I love culture. And I thrive on change. And so I guess other people that I've surrounded myself with over these years feel the same way. And I think I've energized and empowered some of them. That's where we've gotten to, but what's my story will begin at the beginning. So I grew up in a in a small farming community here in the state of Michigan, about 60 people graduated with me in high school, I think about 10 of us went to college and probably half of us graduated. So it was a different place where than where I am now. But you know, learned a lot while I was there. And actually, I was pushed by two very entrepreneurial and driven parents, but in a loving way and had all the support that I needed. But one thing that they taught me from the beginning was respect and thinking about others and making sure I understood how it was impacting other people's lives and that I was taking their feelings into consideration and that's something that has served me forever and ever and ever. So thank you mom and dad.After leaving that small town, I decided to do something a little different. So I went to a big college which was Michigan State 40,000 people so that was kind of an eye opening experience.

Mark: 05:00

me, but it did, okay, I learned an awful lot got exposed to some new things, came back and took my first job with General Motors, which now has has been a 36 year career, which is phenomenal. But along the way, I've been given wonderful opportunities and opportunities to learn. But that first job, you know, big city of Detroit, which was new for me, in the basement of the old General Motors Building, and after a year of kind of learning and experiencing that new way, I decided I needed something more. So I applied for my master's. For some reason, I always wanted to go to University Chicago because I was a finance guy. And I always wanted to be a bond trader on Wall Street, which is so far from my personality, and where I've ended up as amazing. But thankfully, Chicago, deferred me for a year. So I went to my second choice, which was a school on the East Coast. And so I spent a couple years out in Boston and got my MBA came back, worked for General Motors and got married, which was an important thing in my life, obviously, as I am a husband and a father first and worker second.

Mark: 05:59

But again, worked for a year here in the city of Detroit and once again, decided it was time to seek something new, I needed some more learnings and some more challenges. And so I raised my hand for an overseas job, actually, and got a job in Belgium of all places. I remember my father asking me when I told him, I was going to work in Belgium, he thought it was in the Middle East, and he was a little concerned. But the really interesting thing about that job opportunity is I was actually third choice. And so there were two other people that were in line ahead of me. But they decided in the end, they didn't want the job. And it took my wife and I about two minutes to decided we were going to go and experience this new challenge in Europe. So we lived for three years in Belgium. Back in the early 90s, no internet, no mobile phones, you talked about isolation from your friends and family. That was it. But we enjoyed our three years there. Actually, both of our children were born in Belgium, which was fantastic. And then we headed back to the United States and spent four years back in the Detroit area. But I spent most of my time working in Latin America. So I'd had the US experience, I had the European experience, it was time for something, again, completely new. I spent my time down there. And at the end of four years decided, again, we needed another adventure. And so I raised my hand and my wife and I and my our new young family, headed to the UK had never been there before, took a new job there in a new office with a bunch of new people focused on on market new markets and strategic initiatives. So a lot of mergers and acquisitions, a lot of partnerships, a lot of new country entry. So some really stimulating work that taught me a lot of different things. But again, after three years there decided it was time, once again, to do something new, are you are you noticing a theme here? Every few years ago, I'm getting it. I'm raising my hand, again, with a partnership of my wife and your spouse, which you need all the way. But we ended up in Australia. And so GM financial at the time, had just opened up a bunch of new businesses in Asia Pacific. And they needed someone to run that region. And so we went down to Australia, which is a fantastic place to live and raise your family. Unfortunately, I spent most of my time on a plane because the Asia Pacific region is so large, and we had just started working in China. And what was really cool at that time is China had just opened up to the west. And it was an opportunity to really do some new things. And we set up a joint venture there, which even today is one of the most successful finance companies in all of China. So that was great. Unfortunately, that only lasted about 18 months. So it was a little short. And we move back to the UK for another opportunity. And I was running our European operations at the time, which is about 20 countries. And while I was there, we spent another three years in London, I was promoted to President of International Operations. And we came back in the mid 2000s to the United States. And so after about 12 years of being overseas, and really my kids spending most of their life outside of the United States, we made the difficult decision to come back to the US and talk about reverse culture shock, oh my goodness. But we settled in we've been there ever since. And, again, haven't moved again since then. But looking for additional challenges a few years ago raised my hand once again. In addition to my President of I O role, I took on Chief Administrative Officer roles, where I had global HR, global IT, global communications and risk reporting to me and we transformed them into a global organization versus regional business units. And so a lot of different opportunities. And this year to end the story. It's of course, this is an ending the story. But I decided I want to try something else. So I left my team of 3000 employees at GM Financial, and actually went to work at the GM parent company. So I'm still part of General Motors, but in a really new area focused on EVs batteries, energy services, and as of May and June I took that role became a team of one. So I didn't have to influence anyone. But now we've built a team to 22 and we're on our way to 55 and so another new challenge ahead of me which is fantastic and I think you know, it's interesting walking through that story, because I don't do it very often. But at the end of the day, as I talked about the different places and the different jobs, people's faces, pop through my brain at 100 miles an hour, and you realize, you are just, you know, a combination of all the people you've come across and the teams that you've built in the relationships that you've that you've made, and it really is about the people at the end of the day. That's what that's what matters for you. And that's what matters for them. So that's my story.

Jan Griffiths: 10:27

No, that's great. That's a great story, a lot of travel, you learned a lot, I'm sure, by living in different cultures, you learn to assimilate into those cultures. And I think you also, I would imagine that it would also strengthen your belief in cognitive, thought and cognitive diversity.

Mark: 10:51

Yeah, no, it's it's amazing to be exposed to different cultures and different people and realizing for a moment that you're an outsider. And I think many of us that, that go through life and reflect that and realize we have unconscious biases around diversity and inclusion. By us being exposed, where we were actually the outsider in a number of different scenarios where I was the odd one out, you suddenly get the ability to experience what that feels like. And until you understand what that feels like, sometimes it's hard to think about, you know, other excluded groups across the globe. And I know I used to, very often get in front in front of four of our organization and preach about bringing your whole self to work, which I think you should, right. And I think there's value in that. But by having those early experiences, I realized it was foolish to think that everyone was bringing their full selves to work, right? Because they were uncomfortable because the safe environment wasn't created, because it was something they were holding back on. And so again, through all the international travel, and by being an outsider for a little bit, I think it gave me a bit of an insight that most people don't have and thinking about what is going through that person's brain. That is a little bit on the outside. And it really has helped me absolutely.

Jan Griffiths: 12:00

Yeah, that's right. That's a very interesting perspective. And you talked about creating a safe environment, we know that psychological safety is absolutely positively required, if you want people to bring everything they've got into the workplace and feel challenged and enjoy what they do. And it's it's needed for innovation, we talk about innovation all day long. You can't have innovation, if you have fear in the workplace. So psychological safety is is the foundation of where we need to take the workforce into the future. But Mark, how on earth do you create that?

Mark: 12:40

You connect with the individual. You know, it's it's, you have to and I've learned, I've done a lot of volunteer work in my life. And you always wonder, we get a group of people and you go to a homeless shelter. And for two hours, while you're at that shelter, anyone will do anything. And they're all smiling, and they're working as a team, and they're patting each other on the back. You know, you're creating this common purpose about something that's bigger than yourself, and you're taking the time to understand what's important to the individual. And I always wondered how to translate that to work, right. And you translate that to work by understanding that person as an individual and understanding what's important to them. And if you can find something that's important to them, and to you and to others, you create this internal community within your workforce, which is, you know, something that just isn't possible. And as a part of that creates a safe environment that you're talking about. And so until you really start to get to know each other as individuals, until you really start to care about each other as individuals, the safe environment is hard to create, you know, this new team that I'm building, we're talking a lot about trust, right? And, and how do you build that foundational trust? And I've had a couple of employees come to me and say, Hey, how do I do that? And again, it's, there's no magic five rules, or there's no three things you have to do. It's really like, Do you know the person across the table from you? And you ask them? What is important to them? Have you listened to them? Have you talked about something outside of work? Have you connected with them on a personal level? And do you care about them or not? And if you can do that things and you show that caring, you show that vulnerability, which is something new, very new in the workforce to you create that safe environment that otherwise doesn't exist? And boy, when I joined the workforce in 1985, that didn't exist.

Jan Griffiths: 14:26

No, it certainly doesn't exist in what we we know as the traditional automotive culture. I mean, I your you with GM Financial, which I, I tend to think of as maybe maybe you have a little bit different culture for GM than traditional auto but it's still, it's still GM. How, how on earth were you able to not only survive but thrive, being the authentic leader that you are believing what you believe in? I mean, of course now GM is is different Jim is making all kinds of changes, but back in the day, how were you able to do that to be yourself in in a culture and environment that was perhaps dictating you were supposed to lead a different way.

Mark: 15:14

You know, agenda was hard, right? It's hard for everybody. You know, in the old days, you just went in, you put your head down, you did what your boss told you to do. And you handed in your assignment at the end of the day. And I think pretty early on, which also drove me to look for other opportunities, I knew that's not just what I wanted. And so I was looking for opportunities where I could impact something, you know, could I go to a new country, could I learned something new, and then impacting something became impacting someone, and then it all boiled down to at the end of the day, it's not the number of people that I lead, it's the number of people that you impact. And so I think through that learning process, I went through a little bit of self awareness that a lot of people don't actually have. And then you push that into group awareness. And again, how am I impacting someone today? How am I helping myself get better, but also helping someone else get better. And, again, that resonates with people on a very personal level. And so you see it work once you do it again, right? You keep building that same muscle over and over again, and it helps. And so I think that was something that helped me I kept putting myself in situations where I could make a difference. And there's a lot of risk with that. Right. But you know, I had many people tell me that you don't grow, if you're comfortable, right? You gotta have a little bit of discomfort. And so I guess pushing myself into those situations kind of helped along the way.

Jan Griffiths: 16:30

Yeah, I agree with you. It is a muscle that you built, right? Being an authentic leader, it I didn't even know what the term was, you know, a few years ago, right? But it's you have to, you have to try you put yourself out there just a little bit at a time. And it is like a muscle, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger. And I think that's what some leaders miss out on sometimes, you know, you've got to have the courage and the guts to try something, try something, anything, just try something. I was at a conference yesterday and Daniel Pink, the author was the speaker. And he his message was was very much the same, right? It was just just just try just do something. Take an action. Don't live with regret. People very rarely regret taking action. They most definitely regret inaction. So, you know, could you make a mistake? Yes. But be okay with that. It's all okay with that. And we have to drive this culture where it's okay to fail. And I know that when you've got this psychological safety, which is an environment and a culture that you drive, within any organization or team that you're part of. So creating that culture that's just ripe for innovation. How do you how do you do that? How do you how do you encourage people to step out there and take a risk?

Jan Griffiths: 17:58

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Mark: 18:27

That is a fantastic. That's a fantastic question. And you know, the, the buzzword now is to learn from failures, right? It's only a failure, if you didn't learn from it. If you fail, and you learn from it, it's not a failure. But organizationally, it's hard to create that environment at times, even though we talk about it. And so what the employees around you, they need to see you fail, right, they need to hear your personal stories about where you did fail and how it didn't end your life and maybe how it took a path into a area that you weren't going to go before. And you have to be serious about it. Again, you can't just say the words. You don't specifically set your team up for failure. So you can show by example, that it's okay to fail. But you know what you get there, once again, by stretching. I've learned how amazing it is to put the right people around you and empower them. And what I've learned about that, and where I'm going with this is saying the yes and versus the No But and so by just opening the door and constantly saying yes to your team, you kind of lead them down this path of joint risk. And again, you don't leave them alone. It's group accountability. I am there with you, you know, let's walk this past together. Let's fail together. And you find a good example where it's not high risk maybe to do it, but you fail together. And then you talk about it and you talk about it again, and then you talk about it a third time and again, you keep reinforcing that it's okay. But people don't really feel safe until they actually see it happen. And again, storytelling is important. But you actually need to find an example and walk that path together when your employees before they really believe you. That is a okay to fail, and and you will allow that to happen.

Jan Griffiths: 20:03

Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. And you mentioned storytelling, right storytelling and purpose go hand in hand. And I find that I found this in my corporate role. And I know a lot of leaders struggle with this, too. They're so into the weeds, because they feel they have to be, you know, maybe there's so many crisis going on. There's always a crisis, particularly in automotive, there's always some crisis somewhere, right? I mean, okay, I will admit that this, there's a lot of pressure going on right now in the world with all the supply chain issues. But how, as a leader, you have to keep your team you have to keep their heads up and looking forward, and keep them connected to that purpose. But it's hard when you you, you feel like you have to be in the weeds. And I found that I was judged by my peers by how far down in the weeds I actually was, which was another thing I had to I had to fight. What advice would you give leaders out there in connecting their teams to purpose and keeping their finger on the pulse and, and being in the weeds as much as they should be or need to be?

Mark: 21:13

And just on in the weeds first, because it's important, you know, I mentor a number of people. And the, the thing that comes up all the time is you have new leaders who want to continue to do everything themselves, right? Because they've been successful. And you know, darn well, if you're sitting next to somebody, and there's a job to be done, and you're a financial analyst, and they're not doing it, you just grab the piece of paper and you do it. And that's how you've been successful. So back to working that muscle over and over again, if I do this all myself, I can trust myself and I can get it done. And so trying to train people in that train, talk to people, well, how do you let go? And how do you actually develop and rely on others. And the one thing that I've learned as I've been successful in my career, but boy, it has not been just me and I couldn't have done anything alone. And convincing those new leaders that you can't do anything by yourself, you can to a point in your career, but you're just going to fail. And you really have to, again, fall back to these people relationships and relying on others in creating this joint purpose. And so where I'm going with purpose, if you want that person sitting next to you, to actually help you get something done, you need to create a joint purpose with them a joint goal with them, are going to eject it with them that matters to them as an individual. And so thinking through these statements about how I can connect the dots for others around me, so they can see my vision. So it makes real sense to them. And so it creates an emotional commitment or an emotional bond that they want to help me reach the same purpose. So they're no longer doing this for Mark, they're doing it for themselves. And that's the trick, right? If you can get people to do things for themselves that help you further your own. This is not mean or evil, right? This is joint objectives. This is building purpose, building those guide rails, that you can walk along to that same purpose statement, and getting that done, and getting people on the bus and moving in the same direction is just the right thing to do. And so again, it's thinking about them, thinking about yourself, what's important to them? How do I get them excited about reaching a goal I want to get to? It's not about Mark, what do they want to do? Let's do it together. And so I don't know if that makes sense. But that's how I think about that. For sure.

Jan Griffiths: 23:13

Yeah, no, it does. It does it, I think there's a bit of a leap of faith here, too, when you really focused on purpose, and you connect people to purpose, if they really get it and really understand it understand their role and how they connect to it, then you don't have to monitor or feel like you have to control their actions or decision making, because the purpose will drive that they'll know what decisions to make in line with that purpose. So if you spend more time, on purpose and less time, on making sure on the how and how things are done, and you know, what are people doing, and empower people to do the right thing, then you can spend less time on the tasks and it being in the weeds and more time where you need to be spending your time which is leading leading through purpose.

Mark: 24:03

Yeah, and I use this term before people want guide rails because they want to make sure they're going in the right direction, but they don't want you either pushing them from behind or pointing them for the front, right. And so purposes, those guide rails is something that's emotional enough, clear enough that they understand and they want to go forward with, but it's not so tight and managing them on a day to day tactical basis that they feel suffocated. And so Jan, you talked before about innovation and creativity, it's the same thing. Lining up the purpose gives those guide rails, but it doesn't squeeze people too tightly, they can bump back and forth. And so it allows them to be a little bit creative, a little bit innovative, and they're actually moving forward on the path. And then below the purposes, these actually common objectives. So it's not just purpose, you do have to be a little more specific about common objectives. So again, we know we're walking the same path or the same walking to the same objective at the end of the path. So it's a combination of the purpose plus the objectives, plus again, giving them wiggle room to learn and to be creative and innovative versus pushing pulling and being okay, right? That makes people nervous as a leader, right? Because you want to make sure everything's right. And so this doesn't happen overnight. Not only are you are developing them, and helping them to learn about how to be better employees, all of that stuff helps develop you as a better leader. And the more you give up, right, it's very nervous, and you got to worry about it. But the more it works, the better you feel. And then it's once again, working that muscle over and over again, to build it into allow you to have the confidence, the self confidence and the self awareness and the group awareness to allow that to happen.

Jan Griffiths: 25:33

Yes, there it is. That's it. Oh, to take you back to diversity for a second. I know that you don't just talk about diversity, I know that you know, how to take action with diversity. And I've seen you as an ambassador, for the ERG, the employee resource groups, within your last organization within Jim financial. And I correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's nothing new. I think you've been doing that for a long time. So tell me a little bit about the leadership thought process behind diversity and about taking action, because you take action, you don't just talk, you don't give it to somebody else, you do it. So share with our audience, what's going on in your head and how you do that.

Mark: 26:31

And I think just to start at the top, I mean, diversity creates so much value in so many ways. We talk about creativity and innovation. And you can't have that unless you have a diversity of thought. And you know, you can, again, this is how our world has changed. But it's changed for a better way used to get you got the group of the same looking people in a room together that had the same experience, because what did you want to do, you want to build consensus, because consensus was the way to get things done. And that's how our brains worked. When, you know, as I experienced really different cultures in different countries, I was exposed to so many different thought processes and ideas. And again, at first it became clutter. It was like I don't like this, I don't like different things. I like things that I'm used to. But over time, then I would take some of those ideas or different things that I heard from these different cultures, these different people I met, could be different gender could be different nationality, whatever. It started to click with me, this was actually making me a better person and a smarter person. Because suddenly, instead of trying to build consensus, I had 73 Different options I could choose from, because I was listening and hearing different people say different things. And so the value of getting different ideas on a table, it's just unbelievable. And you talk about a resilient organization, you can't be resilient unless you have diversity of thought. So what do you do? So you get a group of people in the room that don't look like you don't sound like you don't have the same experience as you do. And you listen to their stories and you ask them, Are you bringing your whole self to work? And you hear if you've created that safe environment that no they don't? And no, they aren't. They are not bringing their whole self to work. And so I'm thinking, holy smokes, I'm only getting 50% of all of these people. If I could get 100% of their different ideas and different culture and different experiences and different backgrounds and different personalities. How powerful would that be? And so again, what do you do in that room? You don't you don't tell them what you're going to do you ask them what you should do. And so you know, how can I get you to come to the work and feel more comfortable? How can I get you to the work and bring more ideas. And a wonderful example, at GM Financial was we did that. And we got those people in a room. And we created this this group called the woman's inspiration network, which was more gender focused than the broader diversity focus, but still, its diversity, right? And to hear those individuals that are on the table, and to tell their personal stories and feel safe, about why they hadn't brought their whole selves to work, realize that we needed an employee resource group that would serve their needs and allow them to speak more freely and create an environment that would not only help themselves, but it would help me but it would help the company. And it was again around the Yes. And and not no, but it was like okay, these are great ideas. I will support you in any way I can. Because I am the leader, I can help make the decisions. I can give you money I can do but you need to do it. You need to own it. You need to tell me what to do. Because I'm sorry, I don't have all the answers in this area, which is a leader when you say that you can look around their own people going oh my gosh, we thought Mark was really smart. But, you know, again, it opens up a level of vulnerability and personal relationship that you wouldn't have established before. And these people realized I was serious. We were serious. And so, okay, Mark, here's your laundry list of seven things we think we need to do. And you know what we did them. And that was so powerful. And from that, you know, you opened up other more diverse discussions. Well, let's have a Different employee resource groups listed, let's do something different. Those Those same list of seven things could be done for different people in different areas. But it was so powerful by having that vulnerable and open discussion, asking them what they needed, listening to what they wanted, and then make it happen and be a part of it. And then get up in front of the broader organization at every chance you have, and say how wonderful this experience was, and how important it was and how you are committed to it. And again, you're talking about taking a risk. It's just again, it's about taking part of the risk, but those people will not believe you're committed until they see you do that. And once they know you're committed, again, that flywheel starts turning, and those ideas start coming out. And that safe environment is created. And I hear stories I've never heard before. It's like, oh, my gosh. And it's really simple. It's just listening to people and letting them talk in supporting them in ways they need to be supported. So there's not a magic pill.

Jan Griffiths: 30:56

I think often we overthink these approaches to leadership, right? We think with diversity. Oh, my gosh, you know, where do we even start? What does it mean idea? I don't know what I'm supposed to do? And the answer is just as you articulated, just ask, ask people to show your vulnerability, put yourself out there a bit and just ask, What do you think we should do as a team as a function as a company, and follow the lead of the people on your team and support them?

Mark: 31:27

And empower them? I, you know, through that situation to by saying, Okay, this is a wonderful list of things to do, we'll do them together, I saw people who never had leadership roles before. But again, back to our previous discussion. It created a new purpose for them. And so you talk about employee development, they suddenly really cared about something that was important to them, and also important for the company. And it's harnessing that power was amazing. So I saw people who had just, you know, come to work every day and maybe sat at their desk and did a great job. But they did nothing more than that. Suddenly, they were becoming leaders within the CRG. And so you talk about employee development. Oh, my gosh, it was fantastic.

Jan Griffiths: 32:05

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Let's talk about the pandemic, Mark. What did you learn from the pandemic? Let's say what did you learn about yourself from the pandemic?

Mark: 32:18

Yeah, the you know, I learned, which I knew, I guess, so this maybe isn't learning, whenever there's a crisis, we all tend to do, okay, because we coalesce around the crisis, and we just get stuff done. And we stay focused. I think. And, you know, because of my international roles, too, I had led teams that were remote. And so that wasn't as new for me. What I did learn, though, was how important again, this personal connection, which was easy when you were at work, and you were walking down the hall to go get lunch or going to the bathroom, you would stop and you'd say hi to somebody, and you chat. And so I took all of that for granted that personal connection that you had. And I guess one of the things I learned was how important it was to actually have those types of discussions while you're sitting at home. Because, you know, again, we all got onto these zoom calls, we're going 100 miles an hour and going from one to the other. And those kinds of conversations and interaction was not happening. And it was people were emotionally impacted, including myself. I mean, I, I didn't have that that personal discussion, which kind of gave me my internal energy every day. And so I learned that I needed that I learned that employees around me needed that. So I picked up the ball a little bit with more, hey, let's at the beginning of each call, let's just talk How's everybody doing today? What's the story about your dog, you know, barking on the last call, or, Hey, how are your kids doing at school. And so it was almost learning to be more intentional and deliberate about those personal connections that came more naturally when we were in the workforce. And so that was a learning. The other thing I think I would throw out there that I think, organizationally I leveraged was many, many, many people are afraid of change, and they don't think they can handle change. And oh, my gosh, we handled change through the pandemic, because we worked from home and we were remote, and we still were successful, and everything's great. And so I now stand up in front of people and say, Hey, all of you, people who thought you were afraid of change and couldn't manage it, or all those people who didn't think you could experiment, because experimentation is so important that failure and learning Oh, my gosh, the last two years were so much change in so much experimentation. And we survived. We didn't just survive, we thrived. So again, think about those new things for yourself as an individual, but also for us as a company. They are real lessons that we should have learned and continue to learn through this pandemic. We can thrive and change. We can look for opportunities when crisis hits. And so there's a lot the pandemic is bad. But there are a lot of good things that we can all take from it personally and professionally for sure.

Jan Griffiths: 34:48

Oh, so you really? Yeah. You saw a way to turn that into a major positive?

Mark: 34:53

Yeah, absolutely. Cuz so many times when you talk about back to our discussion, we can't fail. We can't experiment. It just did it for two yours and you survived. And we won. This is cool. Let's do it again. So it's a good example. It's a bad example because it happened. But it's, you know, again, you always look for opportunities in the dark corners. And because a lot of people tend to shy away from the dark corners, if you're willing to walk into the dark corner, you can find some pretty good opportunities,

Jan Griffiths: 35:20

huh? Yeah, like that. Talking about change Gen Z wants a completely different workplace than perhaps the workplace you were I grew up in? What are you doing to attract Gen Z?

Mark: 35:37

You know, and it's, it's interesting, my new space, we're finding that purpose matters even more. And so I talked to you about, you know, a GM are working in this area of, you know, batteries and sustainability and energy services. And so, building a purpose statement that is about creating a better world long term for us, not only for the organization, but for everyone really, is powerful for those individuals. And so many times I'm finding myself on an interview with, with younger employees, potential employees, and instead of talking about what's your experience, so they want to know what the jobs like, or what is the office like they want to talk purpose. And so being able to connect with with GMs, goals of 000, which is all around sustainability, and again, making the world a better place, is extremely powerful message and it matters. The second thing is flexibility and work life balance. And because we are still working in a hybrid model, due to the pandemic, people are very accepting of that. And we've, we've changed our mindset that not everyone has to be in Detroit, or Austin or California, the team that I'm hiring, we are all over the place. And again, that's it's scary to a lot of people, but it's extremely powerful, because you're creating work life balance for them. But you're also finding the best talent regardless of where it is, right. And so especially in the area that I'm in now, we really have to poke around in different parts of the US and the world and find people that have talent that we're looking for, and having that flexibility is good for us. And I think it's good for the younger employees to and so it's it's working out, but it takes work. I mean, we all have to continue to adapt, right?

Jan Griffiths: 37:12

Yeah, yeah. No, it does. It takes it takes work. And I see a lot of discussion, and a lot of white papers and publications recently, about the employer-employee model changing, we are moving into the gig economy, you know, I You could argue I'm a gig worker, right, because I work for many different companies. And I think I see Gen Z really embracing that model. And I think from the employer standpoint, it means you can pluck the skill set that you need for a specific project, and have that skill set only when you need it. So you don't have to bring everybody on board as an employee. How do you how do you see some of the challenges with the gig economy moving forward?

Mark: 38:02

Yeah, I think first, the positive side is just what you said, I think some of the the younger employees or potential employees or contract workers are willing to take a little bit more risk and the outcome and into a project with you. But I don't want to work for you long term. Again, historically, employers maybe have struggled a little bit with that. So that's actually a good opportunity for both sides. It's good for the employee themselves, they get to work on what they want, what they're passionate about. And we get to bring in experts that maybe we only need for a project, and maybe we don't need them long term. And so it's, it is a struggle because again, it's a different model. And we all whenever there's a new model thrown at us, we look around for pieces of paper. Well, when did I do that last? And what did I do? And how did I work it out? And so the there's a lot of opportunity with the gig economy, as you mentioned, but it's really people getting comfortable with how do I make this work? And how do I? How do I feel confident about that? And I don't think we're there yet. But it is also focusing more on project-based type work. You know, you talked about agile it now and everything's being done in an agile way. And we get into the Scrum teams and we work together. Sometimes, again, that makes people nervous, because hey, we're just throwing people in a war or in a room and they, they're focused on a problem and they have to solve it. What are they going to do tomorrow? What are they gonna do next week. But actually, the gig economy allows you to do that, again, bringing these people that maybe have expertise in a very specific item, they only want to work on it, because it's what matters to them. You throw them in a room for three months. And if you can put some structure and governance around that you will get more output than finding an employee that's been working with you for 10 years on something else. And you want to drag him into this project that they're not really interested in. And so we're all learning in this space, too. But again, I think there's opportunity there.

Jan Griffiths: 39:45

Yeah, I do too. But it is going to take a leader who's very comfortable in their own skin to be able to manage and lead through that. But it's coming you know, it's here, and there's going to be more of it. So I want to that's why it's This is on the agenda for all my podcast guests, because I want to bring more attention to it more exposure to it, let's talk about, you know, fears and hopes and fears. And will that will keep moving the item forward?

Mark: 40:13

No, and it's interesting, you mentioned, we all have worked for anxious leaders. And that's not always the easiest thing to do. And so I say to my kids who are working age that, hey, if you have a good leader, or a good boss, be happy and leverage everything you can, because it doesn't happen that much. And so as you said, a leader has to be comfortable with all this change. But I would say a large percentage of leaders, you know, across the globe, we're not comfortable with the change that we're facing now, which creates anxious leadership, which is not really better for the broader team. And so you have to be focused on that, too.

Jan Griffiths: 40:45

Yeah, yeah, you're right. Well, authentic leadership, I've defined the hallmark of authentic leadership as gravitas. Mark, what is gravitas to you?

Mark: 40:57

Yeah, it's too big of a word for me to understand, Jan. Because I have that, you know, small community background, but um, the, you know, I think it's, we talked about it a little bit, it's really getting better every day, but not getting better every day yourself, but actually helping others get better every day. And you know, what, we talked about leaders and how they think differently. I've actually talked with leaders before, where I said, Hey, my mantra is I want to get better every day, they were like, well, that means something's wrong. It means you're not good enough. It means you're challenging me because you think I'm doing something wrong, if you're asking me to get better, and I said, now we can all get better every day. And so I think, again, not only by doing it for yourself, but making sure you're doing it for others is extremely important. And then to me gravitas to his people being able to trust you and just know you're going to do the right thing. I think you use the quote in one of your 21 days of authentic leadership, and I can't remember exactly, but it's not doing the thing that's fun and easy, but it's actually doing the thing that's right. And creating a level of integrity that people can trust, you know, we get back to creating the safe environment, which then creates innovation, which then creates creativity, which then generates results, which then generates success. You can't do any of that unless you have the foundational trust. And the trust is built on the integrity that they feel you have as a leader. And so for me, a lot of the gravitas has to surround this, this feeling of integrity and comfort and self awareness that we talked about already.

Jan Griffiths: 42:19

Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. Looking back, let's say at 25 year old Mark, what advice would you give 25 year old mark in today's environment.

Mark: 42:37

And 25 year old Mark was a little crazy. But really calm down. And don't worry about a plan. You know, sometimes people get stuck on a specific plan. And as we talked about around purpose, you need a path, you don't need to be locked into a plan. And I think when I was 25 years old, it was all about what was I going to do next, you know, and building out the career in my brain and things have to fall into place for a reason. And once I realized that we really was about chasing opportunities that you weren't thinking about. And that would fall in your lap, I talked about, you know, going to Belgium and being the third choice. If I was too focused on a plan, a specific plan, I never would have done that. And so I think that was a real learning just calmed down and kind of take it as it comes. And make sure you're not missing the opportunities. As we mentioned already in those dark corners. We talked a little about diversity and inclusion. I don't think I understood that well enough at 25 years old about the power behind that. Again, as you and I talked about, I think the opportunity to go overseas and experience the different different cultures helped me. But you know, even in the recent past, I am today still I have unconscious biases that I need to explore and expand on. And so really understanding that consensus is not the answer. And diversity is I think is extremely important. And I think I would tell that person again, don't be so focused, be a little more playful, be a little more curious, and be a little more brave. So, Mark did okay, but Mark could have done a little better. But as you said before, I also have no regrets. It's all good.

Jan Griffiths: 44:09

Yeah, it is. It's all good. It's all good. Tell me, let's talk about some personal stuff. Okay, and I love I love to ask this question, because I'm really fascinated. How do you start your day? How do you set your day up for success?

Mark: 44:29

You know, I, the morning is me time early in the morning is me time. So I get up early, and I don't do anything with work. And I do something physical. So, and I I also get up in the morning and kind of think about how I feel what I want to do. So again, it's back to not having some plan that I'm trying to force myself into. Do I feel like I want to write a stationary bike today? Do I want to go for a walk? Do I want a box? Do I want to do weights but that morning time when I'm doing that physical activity I need to kind of get started and I really Don't think about work, I really just, you know, keep myself present in what I'm doing, and kind of just wake up. So you know, that's another thing with this with this remote work, the 7am calls don't work well for me because I haven't gotten that hour of workout in beforehand where I kind of clear my mind and just get started for the day. But it is the time that I take for myself religious to make sure that I'm physically strong as well as emotionally strong.

Jan Griffiths: 45:24

Yeah, I agree. And so that's what I like to do, too. I like to, I walk in the mornings. Now that's, that's my new thing in the mornings, I really enjoy that. I can't get right into work. Right away, you've got to prepare your mind. You've just got to prepare yourself for the day.

Mark: 45:42

Yep, no, I agree. And, and to me, it's not really planning what I'm going to do next. It's just clearing up my head right and getting ready to go. Because just like we talked with everything, you know, something's going to happen during the day, that's going to be a complete curveball that you didn't expect it. And you need that clear mind to be able to deal with it in the right way.

Jan Griffiths: 45:59

Tell me about personal accountability, how do you hold yourself accountable because we all we're all human. And we all talk ourselves into and out of things. So any any tricks or tips or tricks for personal accountability?

Mark: 46:16

No one, I'll tell you gen two. And I say this on everything works in the workplace works at home. In other words, you can't separate the two. So I mean, anything you do as an individual you should be doing everywhere. It doesn't matter if you're home, you're at the workplace. But I do think about managing expectations. I tried, I like to take risks. And I like to, you know, push people to do big things or think about things differently. But I also am very careful that I don't create unrealistic expectations, either what I say or what I expect of other people, because you have to manage the relationship, manage the day manage the tactical work product, whatever from the beginning, in the beginning is the expectations. And so I'm always careful in that area. The other thing I'm focused on is if I say I'm going to do something, and I don't do it, I follow up. I don't just let it slide. And so I send that I know probably a lot of people don't like this, but I will send a lot of emails that just say, hey, you know, you and I talked about this, I didn't get through it today. I'm really sorry. I'll get to it tomorrow. And sometimes people say, Well, why do you waste your time writing a little email about nothing. And I said, Well, that's not nothing. Because, again, thinking about the person on the other side of that email, that may be expected, they need to do something for me today, or they're expecting something from me, and they had to do something else themselves. They're gonna sit there and wonder and wonder creates anxiety and anxiety creates pressure. And so if I just drop them a little note and say, Hey, sorry, I didn't do this. I'm gonna do it tomorrow. I think that helps. But in today's day and age, especially at the leadership level, people think they have the right not to follow up, or not to let that person above or below them know that something's not coming today. And that's always really helped me. And, you know, a lot of people had said, Mark, you didn't have to do that. But I know when they say that they mean, thank you for that. Because that helped me know what was happening. I didn't have to sit there and try and guess. And so I think those are two important tools that I use for myself.

Jan Griffiths: 48:08

Yes, I love that. And I think you are absolutely right. And, and it goes back to who you are as a person. And, and a leader and your values, you know, and you truly value relationships with people and you respect people. And when you respect people, it doesn't matter what title they have, or who they are that that to me, what you just described is a mark of respect to another human being.

Mark: 48:33

That's absolutely you know, I am we celebrated last year, or I guess, was two years ago. So it was pre COVID. One of the leaders within GM Financial, just this little personal story, I'll tell. And, you know, I got up and roasted them and got to say something positive about them. When you talk about how you treat people as individuals and values. I said, Hey, we were in this conference together. And we had a 10 minute break. And all of us are running into the bathroom and running out. And you know what this person did? They were in the bathroom, someone was in there cleaning the bathroom, they took the time to stop and ask that individual how their day was, you know, they were they're cleaning the sink, or they were cleaning the floors. Hey, how are you today? I hope your day is going well. And you know, that's Oh my gosh, you talk about personal connections and thinking about others and making an impact. Those little things are so powerful. And that person that was in there cleaning the bathroom. As I walked out, I turned around and the individual had a smile on their face because someone had taken the time to ask them about how they were doing. And you know what they meant they meant the question. And it was just a wonderful lesson for me. And again, it goes back to just treating doesn't matter if you're treating it's the janitor or it's the CEO or it's someone on the street. They're human and you need to treat them like they're human and there's so much value because what you give you get.

Jan Griffiths: 49:46

and that is a perfect way to end our time. together today. Mark Bole, you clearly are a servant leader you live your and lead in line with your values and it has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you.

Mark: 50:02

No, thank you, Jan and keep changing the world. I'm counting on you.

Jan Griffiths: 50:06

I'm doing it my friend. I'm doing

Mark: 50:08

good stuff.

Jan Griffiths: 50:09

All right, thank you.

Mark: 50:10

Thanks, Jan.