Meet Kimberley Gardiner, former Senior VP of Marketing, Volkswagen

[Transcript]

Jan Griffiths: 00:50

In this episode, you'll meet an automotive executive who sits clearly at the top of her game. She's in her dream job. She has been able to take her passion for the environment and her passion for making a difference in people's lives and combine that into her mission-driven approach to leadership and to her work. She is Kimberley Gardiner, Senior Vice President of Marketing for Volkswagen. She actually listened to her father many years ago when he told her, do something that matters. She is indeed a change agent. And she is very much an authentic leader and a leader with gravitas. And we'll explore exactly what that means in this episode. And to quote Kimberley, “I don't see silos. I see people.” Kimberley Gardiner, welcome to the show.

Kimberley Gardiner: 01:52

Thank you so much, Jan, it’s awesome to be with you.

Jan Griffiths: 01:54

Kimberley, you and I met a couple of years ago now on the Automotive News stage. And I can't believe that Automotive News keeps bringing people together, but it certainly does. I'm looking at you today and you are top of your game. You are the Senior VP of Marketing for Volkswagen, which is a position that you just recently took. But you have a tremendous amount of experience and career progression. You have worked for Toyota, Kia, Mitsubishi, and now Volkswagen and I am dying to get into the why Volkswagen bit. But before we go there, let's go all the way back to the beginning. Kimberley Gardiner, what is your story?

Kimberley Gardiner: 02:47

All right, let's do this. So I was born in Michigan, surprise, surprise. A lot of people think everyone born in Michigan there's got to be some tie or roots back to automotive. For me, my father actually worked at a GM plant for all of two years, decided that the automotive industry was not for him. So the family quickly moved when I was two out to Southern California. Lived there for a number of years, my parents then subsequently got divorced, and my journey to moving around the country and around the world started. So basically, I became a Navy brat for a period of time, I went to four different high schools. I graduated high school in Italy, came back to the States to do my undergraduate at Mills College in the Bay Area in California, did communication work, started to fall in love with marketing, and a little bit of advertising. But I wanted to change the world. I was bright-eyed and full of ideas to make things better. I think that's really how I'd always been when I look back at moving all over the place, doing different things, meeting new people. So much of my story, I think, up to that point was being adaptable, picking up starting all over again, and hopefully leaving things a little better than I found them. So once I finished college, I will not forget I was I was back in San Diego, I was talking to my father. And he said, “You know, I know you want to do marketing and advertising. You want to tell great stories, you want to do something”, but he's like, “Just do something that that matters, do something that's going to change things because that's really what you're built to do.” And I said you know what, I'm going to set out and do environmental work. Within two weeks, I had my first job in the environmental field. I did that for a number of years in San Diego, I moved to New Zealand and continued to do that there. And then a few years later, I thought you know, I love what I do, but I want to do something that's going to be more business oriented. And so I decided to look for companies, look for opportunities, where I could then figure out what my next career chapter is. In the meantime, I did an MBA at Indiana University, which was awesome. I started to look for opportunities to combine my passion for the environment with my passion for marketing a product that really makes a difference in people's lives. And I stumbled literally across the opportunity with Toyota. They had a graduate management program, they were recruiting on our campus. The more I looked at the opportunity, I thought, I can work on fuel cell development, I can work on this thing called the Prius. And I ended up taking an opportunity with them. I was with Toyota for 15 years, all kinds of different roles, all related to marketing, but had the pleasure of working on the Lexus brand for a long time, Scion back when it was still a brand, and Toyota for about four years. Then I left auto, I thought you know what, 15 years, it was time for change. I had literally not lived in the same place for that long, I don't think ever. And I thought, yeah, I'm ready for a change. And I did some startup work for a little bit of time. I loved it, did digital asset management, and really enjoyed it. And I thought, you know what, what I learned is I love doing a little bit of everything. And fast-forward another year, and then I get a call from a recruiter from Kia. And they said, Oh, we've loved your experience. We want somebody who's going to come in and do it differently, somebody with digital experience in particular. And I said, No, here's four names I can give you, but I'm not, I'm not there. I'm good. I'm enjoying what I'm doing, I'm all set. fast-forward I took the call eventually, I did the interviews, I thought you know what automotive’s calling me back. And there's a reason for that. And over the course of a few years at Kia, and then moving in to Mitsubishi, and then moving to Volkswagen, what I realized is what I love about this industry, and what I love about automotive is not only just what we make and how it matters, but the impact people like me can make on the industry for change. And I think the benefit of going outside, coming back in again, moving around to different brands, has really led me to who I am right now, which is not only an executive at a global automotive brand, but I'm a change agent. And I can do that, where I am now in a way that I couldn't do many years ago. So that's really where I'm at. That's me.

Jan Griffiths: 07:13

Yeah, I agree with you. I think jumping out of auto is good. It gives you a different perspective. And at one point in my career, I jumped out of automotive and I worked for Maytag, worked for the appliance industry for a short period of time. But it really made me think about what was good in automotive and what we needed to hold on to and what we could let go of. So it gives you a totally different perspective. And in the past, success was very much determined by how long you'd been in a position and you stayed with the company, you know, and we're way beyond that model now. In fact, I think we really are embracing more diversity of thought. And the more that you can bring different perspectives together and as a leader in order to embrace that, encourage that, it's good if you have some of that yourself. So I would absolutely agree. But now this last move, Kimberley, come on, Volkswagen, a German OEM. You know, I'm just gonna be honest here and tell you when I saw that, I thought, oh, what has she done? Because my experience with Volkswagen is, I hate to say this, but I'm just going to share it from my perspective, but a more conservative, structured, perhaps bureaucratic company, not somebody that I would have seen you working for, quite frankly. So tell us about that.

Kimberley Gardiner: 08:41

Yeah, fair point. It is a very large organization. I have learned over the last few months. But you know, I think that slower moving industries like ours, we have to find more people that actually want to make things different, that want to move things faster. I found that any opportunity when I had to speak to the hiring manager of Volkswagen, I first looked at Volkswagen because I thought, global brand, such great potential, it had the essence of what I saw at Kia and Mitsubishi in terms of the ability to grow. Right? For different reasons. EV. Huge. And remember I was saying my background being environmental work, I got into the industry literally because of Prius. The ability now to have an impact on launching the EV’s for this brand here in the US? Dream job. Dream job. So I looked at it from the brand’s perspective, I looked at it from the product portfolio and what’s coming, and I looked at it from the people that I spoke with during the process, including my boss and Scott Keogh. And both of them are open minded and want to try things in a different fashion. And I think they really want to help grow this brand and build momentum. And I said, you know, I can't think of a better person than myself to help figure that out at this moment in time.

Jan Griffiths: 10:02

Yeah I, well, I applaud VW for putting you in the role. I think it's great that there's diversity, not only in terms of a female in the role, but in terms of the background that you bring, and the diversity of thought that you bring to the role. And there are lots of great things happening at VW. And as you and I have talked about before, my background is mostly in supply chain. And as painful as it was at the time, I will admit that I learned more about how to launch a program the right way through VW than I did with any other OEM, quite frankly. The rigor that they apply to their processes was something else. And I learned a lot from it. And in fact, it inspired me to create a program management function within supply chain in my last corporate role. So thanks, VW. Actually, it was more through Audi. But yeah, thanks for that.

That's enough about me. So tell me, you know, you've worked for many different cultures, Japanese, Korean, and now German, and obviously, you're based in the US. So tell us a little bit about what have you learned? What are you taking with you, as your leadership journey evolves, what are you taking with you, what's resonated with you about those different cultures?

Kimberley Gardiner: 11:21

Yeah, I love that. Well, and I'll even start even, like I said, getting into the auto industry in the first place, in the environmental background. And a lot of what you have to do in environmental work is convincing someone to change their attitudes and their behaviors, right? To try to make things different in terms of the resources that we use, and how we manage our everyday lives. And you're often talking to an audience that just doesn't share, maybe, that same motivation. And I think what I've learned is taking that passion for literally getting behind someone's thinking and figuring out, what's it gonna take to resonate with you, to be more empathetic with you to figure out how do I change your thinking from A to B. Getting into the industry, coming into Toyota Prius, launching that vehicle launching the RX hybrid, the first hybrid for Lexus, launching a little bit when I left, the Toyota Mirai the fuel cell vehicle, so much of what I've come to appreciate from Toyota, a long standing very successful global company, change can be hard, right? Changing people's perceptions, even with a really strong brand like that. And I think there's something to be said for really understanding the importance of building a coalition, building partners, building relationships with others to try to figure out what's the right way to really help people see the brand, maybe, in a different way, right? You've seen us as one way, we want to change that perception and have you expand on that. And I think what I learned at Toyota is, it's really about patience, it's about consensus, and a ton of it is about respect for people. And I think if you have that at the core, listening to what your constituents want, regardless if they are end consumers, if they're important dealers, if they're internal, you know, folks, listening is so key. And you get that, you get the long term game with Toyota. I think, fast forward to Kia, it's very much about diving in right now. Getting things done right now. And being more aggressive, being more assertive, really making a mark. And a fabulous lesson to balance the Toyota experience with that, right? Having patience, but at the same time really having a drive and saying, that's where I want to go, I want to grow, I'm going to make it happen. And they're not afraid to do what it takes. And then Mitsubishi, a small little brand here in the US, with such great potential. And I think what I really learned is, it is so much fun to be part of a small brand that is so optimistic about what's in front of them, right, what the future holds. And having people go, “Mitsubishi, who are they? Do they make cars still?” And I learned, you know what, that challenger fighter spirit comes through in a small organization where you can really make a big impact, because there's not many of you around the table. You can actually really help influence change, not only in marketing for me, but, there weren't silos. I was able to talk with and meet with so many people across the organization all the time. And I think all of that really prepares me for Volkswagen, which is this combination of, you know, maybe slower moving, more process oriented, to we've got to break down these silos, we've got to move forward we need to be more aggressive to actually achieve the growth targets that the brand has. And you have to think small, which sounds crazy maybe coming from a company like Volkswagen that's so large globally, but we're small here. 2.5 or so percent market share, and we want to really grow. And I think all of that learning has brought me to, I think small, I think big opportunity, I think how do I build relationships. I don't see silos, I see people. And I see an outcome where I can put my stamp on it and say, here's what I can do to help with my leadership ability and my drive to make it better and different and leave it better than I found it. And I can do that, it might take me a little more time at Volkswagen, but I'm optimistic. And I can do that, based on that experience that I've had,and I feel so fortunate.

Jan Griffiths: 15:38

Yeah, it's clear to me that you're very much mission driven. Right? It's not just a job to you, it's not just a big fancy title, you are very much mission driven. And this is a skill set that I believe will be extremely important in the future. It doesn't matter what company you're working for. But if we're going to attract young talent into companies today, we have to be mission driven. And in order to be mission driven, even if you feel it in your soul, you've got to be able to articulate that story. And you just talked about it, you said you know, you got to listen to people, right, you've got to listen to the different perspectives. And there's a tendency in auto to just go dive straight in, right? Get into the detail, get into it, make the numbers, do it, do it or die. Come on, come on, come on, let's go let's go, let's go. And we're gonna have to just pause for a second, as awful as that sounds in automotive speak. But we need to connect with people, like you said it, connect with the stakeholders, align people, and that skill to do that is going to be so important. It is right now and definitely for the future, more so than the skill to drive the numbers. Boom, there it is. I said it, but it is. So what do you think about that?

Kimberley Gardiner: 17:02

I couldn't agree more. And in fact, I think when you and I first met, you know, there was a lot of discussion at that Automotive News conference about talent, and about how do we attract talent? And how do we frame, and this is where my marketing, I think, hat comes in really strongly, right? We need to figure out how do we sell auto differently? How do we sell our category to young folks, to just a whole diversity of folks coming from maybe different industries? You're so right what you said before about it used to be about the tenure, how many years have you been in a job? How many years have you been in a brand waiting your turn to go up the ladder little by little by little? Well, that assumes that maybe auto is your only career, it may even assume that this this company you're with is your only company you're going to work for. And I think decades ago, absolutely. I think today, young people to your point, they want something that's much more mission driven, they want impact. They want to matter. They want their voices to matter. And guess what I don't think they're going to wait years and years and years to get to the point where those voices are heard, and they can actually make an impact I tell my team, regardless if they've had multiple years of experience in the industry, they've been with a company for a long time, or they just literally a recent grad and walked in the door, I respect and want to hear everything from everyone. That's my job. That's why I want that talent to look at auto and think, you know, if I want to make an impact in someone's life with a product that actually really, really matters, right? It's something that's an integral part of who we are and the way we get around literally every day, I want you to know that regardless of where you come from, and what perspective you bring to the table, my job is to hear you My job is to see you. And my job is to figure out how to make that a challenging, exciting opportunity for you whether it's marketing, whether it's something else. Because I think when I talk about automotive, and I talk about why I got into the industry and why I'm still doing it, and I talked to my team, and I can tell some of them are like wow, you're such a change, you're so different. You're so different than other CMO’s and other executives we've had here. So like, you know why? Because guess what, I'm so lucky. I love what I do. I love it. I don't think about work life balance. I should, I don't. I have a sense of this is what I am meant to be doing, and I can't wait to share it with others. I can't wait to invite new talent to come in and say you might think auto was one thing, but you're gonna find a few people like me who want to raise the bar and get more people here, and say this could be an industry that can really I think, diversify, and broaden, and really I think, grow. The impact that young people can have when it comes to marketing when it comes to sales when it comes to all those things, because, by definition, our category and I'm biased, but it matters. It matters a lot.

Jan Griffiths: 20:12

Yeah, you're right. Now, you said that you listen to people, that's your job, right? That's your job, you want to hear from them, you want their opinion. There's only a certain amount of time in each day, whether you work, I don't know, 14, 16, or whatever hours a day. But there is a limit, the day is capped, there’s a beginning and an end, it's different for everybody. When you, particularly when you start a new job, you've got to get, there's pressure on you, I'm sure you've got numbers, there's things that you have to deliver, right. And what I've often found is when I started a new job, you tend to sacrifice a little bit of that time, that maybe one on one time with direct reports, you never want to, but you have to because you've got a, you know, a boss breathing down your neck, or you've got, you know, your colleagues, stakeholders around you that need stuff from you. How do you, you know, I'm asking really for advice for somebody who's starting a new job, right? So how do you balance that, to spend the time that you need to spend with the people and get into the actual doing the task of the job?

Kimberley Gardiner: 21:18

Yeah. Great question. And it is tough, because you're right, especially for a brand like Volkswagen, you know, we have aggressive sales targets, we have huge aspirations for growth. And coming in, you know, I said to my boss, Duncan, I said, you know, I want to take a quick lay of the land, I want to get oriented, obviously, to how things have been done, and what needs to get done to bridge the gap between the current state in the future state, right, and what marketing can do differently. But can I do that, let's just say for the first 30 days, like mark that out, really align with him, align with the executive team, understand what the business drivers are right now. And then let me retool a few things that I know are low hanging fruit, right, that I can make some adjustments to immediately, that I know are going to have a strong impact right now. As I'm going through that process, though, I do want to hear from and listen to and get to know my team. And understand the whys, right? Why are we doing things the way we're doing things? What's worked? Why has it worked? Why hasn't it worked? And maybe why do you think that we are not as successful as we could have been. But I bought myself some time doing that, I think you try to come into a new job, you know, they all say is the first 90 days, you know, you give yourself this time. And the reality is I felt like it was the first 90 minutes of my first call, I think with Scott, and with Duncan, and some other folks on my team with our agency was, okay, we've got to make a change really fast here. It wasn't like kind of sit back and take the first few weeks in, you got to go, you got to jump in and make things work and show why they hired you, I think, in the first place very, very quickly. But at least I was able to say let me work on those few things that I think can really move the needle now. And then over the course of the next 30 days or so let me really dive into underneath those why’s, right? Because there's a reason why things are structured the way they are, there's a reason why we're working with other teams the way that we are, there's a reason why I think we would have been successful at some things and not with others. And then the third phase of all that, in addition to my direct reports, was getting to know my team. And in a pandemic, you can imagine I'm sure we're all working remotely for the most part, a lot of us are, getting to know them and understanding their Who are you? What makes you tick, what do you think's working? What's not working? Why do you think that we maybe have missed the mark and what could we do differently? And I did one on ones with everyone on the team. And I didn't even view it as a, I want to listen to everything you have to tell me about your job and why you want to do it differently. I did it as a let's have a coaching session, let me get to know you. What makes you tick? What makes you excited to be here? Why have you stayed with Volkswagen for X number of years? Or maybe why are you new to the brand? What drew your attention, what drew you to the brand in the first place? And through that process, and learning, okay, a lot of this is making sense. A lot of the churn in the roles, of the role that I'm in, and I think a lot of the transition and the changes team has been through I think has led them to a lot of ebbs and flows, a lot of pendulum swings. And I think what I then realized is the second phase of my plan was, here's how we build stability. Here's how we build a sense of confidence and a sense of ownership across my direct reports and then across the entire team. And I think doing all that within 90 days, actually a little bit less, probably more like 60 to 90 days, was a chance then for me to be able to reflect back a full, or more full and holistic plan that not only said these are things that we can do in the short term, but I think these are things we can do in maybe the medium to longer term, within the next couple of years, to make sure we've got consistency, we've got clarity, and we have a very sharp strategy to win.

Jan Griffiths: 25:09

I like that approach a lot, particularly, you know, you're talking to your boss upfront saying, listen, this is what I need to do here, right? So basically, just give me a little bit of breathing space for a second. And a lot of people are quite frankly afraid to do that. Those leaders that come in and say, well, we need to make changes immediately and do all this this stuff, and here's my list, and here's what worked in other companies I've worked for. That's the worst thing you could ever, ever do. So I love the way that you're starting out. I'm sure it's going to be successful, there's no question about it. So that leads us into authentic leadership. You clearly are an authentic leader, but what does that mean to you? What is an authentic leader to you?

Kimberley Gardiner: 25:58

You know I think first and foremost it’s someone who's comfortable with who they are, which might sound obvious. But you know, I think you reach a certain point in your career, where you understand what you're good at, you acknowledge what you're not good at, you have that that sense of humbleness. But you also bring a drive, you know what makes you tick, you know what makes working with you, hopefully, good. And I think I've looked at authentic leadership as, show up as who you are, because who you are, then, should be something that others can then, I think really, not necessarily emulate, but they can look up to you they can appreciate, they can learn from you. And I think having the confidence to balance, I understand my industry, I understand how to get things done, and then I understand who I am and what I can bring to the table. And I understand bringing those two things together is only going to make my team more successful. And I think that that by nature means you're confident, you are persuasive, you are caring, which is not necessarily a word that I've heard over my career in automotive, I'm highly empathetic. And I think, I don't even think authentic necessarily is a word that I would sort of put over here and say, you know, this is my authentic self. It's like, I don't know how to be any different. I am a, I'm a driven person that has a ton of empathy and a ton of sense of caring. I really, it matters to me that people who worked for me and with me and alongside of me, they want to be there. And they feel like having Kimberley go by KG in the room helps them elevate their own game, you know, and feels like maybe an inspiration, just to think of things differently. Because she's doing that. And that's who she is. And she really wants to make an impact. She's mission oriented. She wants to make a difference. And I don't want to, and I don't even know how to, not be that.

Jan Griffiths: 28:19

Yeah. Well you’re right, it takes time, though, right? It's a process.

Kimberley Gardiner: 28:24

Absolutely. I did not start out that way. I was so worried about fitting in. And especially in auto there are not a lot of women at a higher level many, many years ago. Now, you know, it's exciting to see how many women are in the C suite across the board and many more of us coming. But in the beginning, that wasn't the case for me 20 or so years ago, and I was so concerned for how do I fit in? Where do I need to be? Who do I need to be visible to? What departments are going to be the ones that I’m going to, you know, align myself with so I can be as successful as I can be? What's it going to take to, I don't want to say emulate, but to be more like those people that I look up to, and how did they get there? And the reality is their story is so much different than mine turned out to be, which I think is actually a good thing. It's an exciting thing. But yeah, it changes over time. I think when you start off you're trying to navigate so many things. And I was told at least in my first role at Toyota that you know, it's not a company where people leave. They're there for a very, very long time. And I think that that also, you know, leads to my story being very different which is when I first interviewed, I said I'm here to make an impact. I don't have a lot of time. My master plan, again moving around a lot as a as a kid growing up, I don't know, maybe five years, and I'm going to the next thing because that's just who I am. And I remember the person I was interviewing with a time said, I'm sorry, what did you say? Well, that doesn't happen here. people stay here for 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. And I thought, oh, no, I've blown the job. Like, forget it, they're not gonna take me. And then I said, You know what, but that makes me want to work even harder, and do things faster, and make an impact quicker. If I use a two year increment or a five year increment versus 10, 15, 20 years, I don't have a lot of time to waste, I gotta go. And I got to make that impact happen now. But yes, you're right, absolutely. It takes, it takes time to get there, my hope is that we can accelerate that so that young people don't have to wait so long.

Jan Griffiths: 30:47

And I don't think that they, they don't want to play that game. You know, they don't want to fit the mold, right? We wanted to fit the mold when we started our careers, I know I did. And I would sort of privately, I was proud of myself that I could assimilate into pretty much any Tier 1, right. And as I worked for several of them, I would figure out the culture, and then I would become whatever they wanted me to be. And I was good at that, at reading the culture, and then fitting in. I mean, you know, did I sacrifice myself in the process? No, I mean, I was still me. But there was definitely, you know, having to spend all that mental energy, figuring out what that was, and then adapting your behavior to fit in because I wanted to be successful. And I knew I could read the tea leaves, right? So I knew what it took to be successful. But you know, the younger generation, they're not, that that's like, whoa, what? They don't want to do that, they want to show up and be themselves, and why shouldn't they be? And it's taken me a long time to get to my authentic self, if you will, right, taken me a long, long time. And that's the whole mission of the podcast is to bring leaders on to talk about this very subject, and to talk about the fact that it's actually okay to be yourself and to give yourself permission to lead in a more authentic way.

Kimberley Gardiner: 32:14

Yeah, and I, and you're absolutely right, and I think that one thing that maybe automotive maybe struggles with a bit is that balance, again, of you know, fitting in to be successful and certainly to move up. But at the same time you have to be willing to know who you are, know why you're there. You want to show up and be who you are every day. And I think that that's the beauty of diversity, right? That you're able to have a voice, you can make an impact, you can make a difference. If we're so worried about, you know, some of us are in the past, about fitting in and about how to show up a certain type of leader because that's what's expected. I don't think that that leads to the best diverse thinking. I don't think that leads to really having a boardroom or an executive team that can embrace different types of perspectives and different types of thinking. If we're all worried about how do I look? How do I sound? How do I appear to others? They did this so I should do this? I don't think we're gonna get the best out of each other.

Jan Griffiths: 33:27

What piece of advice would you give to somebody up and coming in leadership, or even towards the end of their career, quite frankly, who wanted to embrace their authentic leadership selves and give themselves permission to lead in a more authentic way? I mean, you've articulated beautifully how you do it, but if there was one thing that you could tell somebody, what would it be?

Kimberley Gardiner: 33:53

You know, I would say find someone in the organization, on your team, maybe your leader, maybe someone else, that creates that sense of confidence in you, that you feel like you can tell them, whatever is on your mind, whatever ideas you have, whatever strategy you want to propose, you're very comfortable with them. Align yourself with them and really help figure out how can I be successful, not necessarily being that person, but how do I create that same sense of safety that I feel with that person, in others. And maybe asking for some of that saying, Look, I'm new here, or, I may be interested in moving up and I want to progress and I want to go to the next level. I understand what's on paper, right, years of experience and these types of skills and things like that. But I also think I bring something different to the table. And you know, may I share with that is. May I share my authentic kind of self here and say, I bring a passion about combining thing that's completely new and different that no one's ever thought about before, with this very traditional industry. And maybe it's okay to say, hey, look, I'm struggling a little bit to figure that out. Right? It's okay to admit that you don't have all the answers. But I would also say, admit what you do love, and admit where you do want to go, and find a person, find a few people where you can feel that sense of safety. And you can feel that sense of, you know, showing up as yourself because you see some of that in them.

Jan Griffiths: 35:27

Yeah, that's right. And then they will help you navigate that journey.

Kimberley Gardiner: 35:32

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's okay to ask for advocates. You know, in the beginning, again, in my career, I was very cautious, I guess, is maybe the way to put it, of, you know, asking for help or asking for guidance. I mean, I had some mentors and that kind of thing. But, you know, in an organization where you're trying to prove yourself so quickly, sometimes we think well, like to your point earlier, am I showing a bit of vulnerability here? Right? Am I not coming in as the expert maybe that I should be? Or with 100% confidence that I have all the answers? And the reality is, I don't think we're hired because we have all the answers, I think we're hired because we have the right thinking, because we challenge things in the right way. Because we show up and we build relationships with others to help solve problems. It's not one person that can do everything. So it's okay to ask for help. By all means, I mean, I think how you do that, and how you show up actually shows that maturity that I love seeing, especially in younger people where they say, I think I can fix this, but I still need a little bit of advice for how to do that. What's the, what's a better way to think about this? Or a different way to think about it?

Jan Griffiths: 36:36

I think the younger generation is more open to that. I think that they don't fear failure as much as perhaps the older generation, certainly the older leadership model in automotive did. You know, you would never admit failure in anything. You just wouldn't, right? And you definitely, if you didn't have the answer, you wouldn't show it. You wouldn't. And now that is different, and that is changing, and for the better. And I think that certainly Gen Z coming in are very, very comfortable in their own skin are very comfortable with who they are. And if they don't know, they're going to ask. And if you want to judge them as being stupid, well, that's more on you. It's more your issue than it is theirs.

Kimberley Gardiner: 37:23

True, very true which I think is a very brave and exciting way to think about the workplace. Because you're right, we've grown up, a lot of us have, thinking that we can't fail, we have to succeed. I mean, isn't that what they call our performance evaluation, you know, success factors. There's no fail factors, they're all success factors. And you're judged against, you know, are you a five or a four or three or two or one. And there isn't, unfortunately, sometimes, especially in larger organizations where you're very KPI driven, you're very process oriented. What's the process for failure, even just something small, because failure at least means that you tried, and you might have tried something different. But the balancing the risk, and the reward of trying something new, should be something where it's at least the organization acknowledges it, at least they create the runway for that to happen. And the space to say, you’re not always going to win, you're not always going to succeed at everything that you try. But as my CEO, Scott Keogh likes to talk about, you know, you got to swing for the fences, you got to go for it. And I think that's so exciting.

Jan Griffiths: 38:41

Yes. And it's okay, if you fail, and here's a safe space. Because like you say, I'd much rather you try and make a mistake than not try at all, because at least we've learned, and it moves us closer towards innovation that we're always talking about in automotive. But if we don't create this safe space, and this, this feeling that somebody can actually put their neck out there and take a risk. So many people…

Kimberley Gardiner: 39:06

And start small.

Jan Griffiths: 39:08

Yeah, start small, right? But so many people are not engaged, let alone take a risk, are not engaged in the job that they do even today. You look at the Gallup numbers and about two years ago, the Gallup numbers were 15% of people, not auto specific, in general, 15% of people were fully engaged in the workforce in their job. Like really, actively, I feel pumped about what I do, and I'm all in, 15%. Now that number is up to 30. I would expect in automotive, it's probably less than that. But if that was a piece of equipment, you'd be losing your mind if that was a piece of equipment on the shop floor. But when it comes to people, you know, we sort of look at that number and either we automatically start to discount it and go oh, well, that can't be right, you know, that can't be my company or my team or my department. It is. That's why authentic leadership is so important and leaders with gravitas are so important, which you clearly are. So tell me, what is your definition of gravitas? If gravitas is indeed the hallmark of authentic leadership? What is it to you?

Kimberley Gardiner: 40:24

I think Gravitas is confidence first and foremost. Because I think if you have confidence, you have presence. And if you have presence, then you have respect. And if you have respect, then that means other folks in the room, see you for who you are, and they appreciate you. And I think if you have all of those elements, you have a sense of owning who you are, but at the same time, a lot of connectivity with others that you work with that you work for that aim that gravitas. Right, not only for yourself and your own team, but really for a whole organization.

Jan Griffiths: 41:06

Yeah, yeah, that's well said. Well said. So we've talked a lot about leadership and teams, let's switch to a slightly different direction. Let's talk about personal leadership, personal accountability. How do you start your day? And how do you hold yourself accountable?

Kimberley Gardiner: 41:27

Well, right now, because I'm working on the west coast, and my company obviously based in the East Coast starts quite early. So my old routine of kind of taking my time to you know, listen to either a podcast or some news in the morning is truncated a bit. But it starts with maybe about five minutes of that, because I'm a big learner. And so every day I want to come to the table with maybe something I saw something I heard something I learned about. So I always try, that's my, that's my self care wellness time, if I call it that in the morning, getting ready. And the good thing is you can multitask. As you know, listening to a podcast, you can do that while you're doing something else at the same time. So making my coffee, listening to a podcast, learning something, maybe taking a note for the day that will maybe cheer up someone on the team or bring just a little bit of a fresh perspective. Then, of course, I look at my calendar and try to figure out, alright, what's the most important things I need to accomplish for the day? What are some of the things that I need to help someone with or support them on and maybe touch base with them on? So I'd like to do that early in the day within those first few minutes. Hey, I know this is a big day, Hey, I know we've got a meeting coming up. It's really important. I'm here, what do you need? What can I do? And just checking in, checking in with my folks. Because again, we're working remotely, it's hard to connect with everyone maybe in the same way for sure that we did before. So a lot of it then is prioritizing for the rest of the day. And of course, like everybody look and see where's my leadership? Where do I need to make sure that I am prepared and ready for those key core priority meetings for the day. And that at the end of the day, I always try to have three things that I feel like, alright, these are my must accomplish for today. And those really, literally can be on a three by five card that I attached to my laptop or my setup in my little home office. So try to do that every single day.

Jan Griffiths: 43:21

Some of the challenges in the virtual world are that people just don't feel seen or heard. You know, I hear so many people feel like they, the word I've heard come back to me is adrift. They feel like they're just out there on their own. And now here you are a new leader in the company. I could imagine that that that, you know, some people would feel even more adrift, right? Because they don't even know you. So how do you you handle that?

Kimberley Gardiner: 43:53

Well, I think you know, first and foremost, starting in a new role and in a pandemic, remotely, in a time where we have a lot of things that are on our plate, first and foremost is getting to know me to that point, right? It's how do I make sure, how do I spend some extra time up front and, you know, cameras on, this is who I am. This is my background. This is my story. But most importantly, this is how I hope you will feel a year from now. And I hope you will feel engaged, I hope you will feel inspired. I hope you will feel included. And what that will look like we're on a journey together. We're going to figure that out. I will come to the table with tons of ideas. I'm a fiend when it comes to learning and sharing information, whether that be podcasts or books or seminars or all kinds of things. So I promise you'll be inspired to learn. I promise that every one of you if you need something from me, and I can help you with something I'm here. And I promise you that you will feel like you matter. And that is so basic. But I think what I heard, not even what I think, but what I heard from my team within a few days of that initial conversation, and then subsequent conversations, one on ones with many of them, they haven't had that before. They haven't had somebody that at this level, that not only says, you know, this is how I work and how I think in my leadership style, but this is how I want you guys to feel, if I do it the right way. You know, if I show up, then you're gonna feel differently. Hopefully, you'll think differently, too, because most people that have worked for me, I guarantee a year from now, even a month from now, maybe even a week from now, you will think differently, you'll think differently about the industry or think differently about marketing. That, to me is straightforward. I want you to feel something different. I want you to feel included, I want you to feel excited, I want you to feel inspired. And so many of them wrote texts, or messages, emails and calls and said, KG, this is great, and thank you. No one's ever said this, this is amazing. I'm so inspired. And I feel just so positive about what's to come. And yes, positive about our strategy for the year and where we're going. But also just themselves, I want them to feel like someone is there that actually cares about driving the business, because that's what I'm here for. But I'm here to help make the team feel different, better, bigger, stronger, faster, more empowered. And I see them and I hear them. And I remind them of that a lot.

Jan Griffiths: 46:51

That's incredibly powerful. And you are using my favorite F word of all time, which is asking people how they feel. And I've said many times, I wish that we would have leaders out there who would not be afraid of that word, because many people are afraid, they think it's soft or weak. It's not. It's a sign of strength. And it's a sign of human connection. And that's how you motivate, inspire, and drive high performance in a team by connecting the hearts and minds of people and galvanize them around your vision and your mission. So I applaud you, I can't even, I'm going to go back and count in the transcript how many times you dropped my favorite F word. And I'm going to tell you how many times it is because that's wonderful. And when people hear you say that, you know, that's another way to encourage people to take that on board and do the same.

Kimberley Gardiner: 47:54

Yes, absolutely it is. It's so important that I want, again, I want people to think differently, I want them to know that I am going to help provide the tools to help get there. Right. I'm not a leader that just says Okay, come back with 10 ideas and let's check them out. I will be there with you on that journey along the way. I will give you resources. I'll give you ideas. I'll bring in guest speakers from outside the industry, which I love doing to have people hear from other leaders and other organizations who have gone through transformation so they can see it's possible. It's doable. But what I pull from that, though, even is, well how does it feel to hear from another company that's gone through this? It feels exciting, it feels inspiring, it feels like wow, we can do this too. And also, I think with great leaders that it's not just what they said, it's how they made you feel that inspired you to do the next thing in your own life. Right? Do you feel confident? Do you feel encouraged? Do you feel respected? For me, do you feel optimistic and positive? We all have challenging days, but if you think positively and optimistically, and you work for people that are like that, again, it's so infectious. It gets you through the harder, more challenging, I don't know how to do this, maybe I'll fail kind of moments. You need to be able to feel like you're working for somebody who's got your back, who wants you to feel safe, who wants you to feel challenged, because that also comes with it. It's not easy with me, I get that, but hopefully it won't feel hard in a “oh no, I can't do this” way. It's just gonna feel like maybe you're stretching some different muscles in your brain a bit in a different way. And I guarantee you will learn new things. And if you don't, I only have myself to blame. So if you don't feel inspired if you don't feel included, and I point to myself on the camera and I say it come back to me. Hold that on me and I want to hold myself accountable, and I'm going to be checking in with you to make sure that I'm living up to my end of that deal.

Jan Griffiths: 50:06

Wow. Yeah, very powerful. So what advice would you give to yourself, to your 25 year old self in today's environment? If you could look back and talk to 25 year old Kimberley, what would you tell her?

Kimberley Gardiner: 50:22

I would say, it's okay to not have all the answers, it's okay to not fit the mold or try to figure out what mold to fit into. I think it's okay to be curious about other ways of getting things done. Meaning that even the strategies, the plans, the processes that are that you're grappling with and navigating, you don't have to necessarily say, hey, I'm okay with that and I'm just going to keep going and do the same thing. I think of as my 25 year old self, I was worried about fitting in, I was concerned about, you know, being successful so early, you know, I have my plans all laid out, you know, by 30. I was like grad school, I'm going to go this and I'm going to eventually be an executive, or at least some kind of senior leader to make that impact. And I think if you reverse that out, you think, well, gosh, I was so serious at 25. I wish I would have, I'm still serious sometimes now for sure, but I think I would say it's okay to create your own mold. And hold yourself kind of accountable for what that mold needs to look like. And how do you want to show up? And how do you want to help others maybe think and feel differently? So that going back to our first point about where did I start from what my story is, that it's okay to feel like you're different. You don't have to be like everyone else, which sounds so obvious. But I think for a lot of us that when you show up as your authentic self, you just feel better. You just feel confident, and you feel like you're at the top of your game. And I would love to feel like that as a 25 year old.

Jan Griffiths: 52:16

Well, Kimberley Gardiner, a woman who is clearly at the top of her game, thank you for sharing your story with us today. And I quote, and you're gonna see this a lot on social media because I love it; “Create your own mold”. Thank you for joining us today.

Kimberley Gardiner: 52:34

Thank you so much, Jan, and congratulations on your 10,000 plus downloads, exciting to see the podcast grow as you have, and just congratulations. It's such a pleasure to be with you.

Jan Griffiths: 52:43

Well thank you.