Meet Delaina and Luke, members of Gen Z in the workplace.

[Transcript]

00:04

Welcome to Finding Gravitas, the authentic leadership podcast designed to help you break the corporate mold and allow your leadership to thrive. gravitas is an irresistible force. It's the hallmark of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan Griffiths, as she guides you through the quest for gravitas by interviewing some of the finest leadership minds. For more tools and resources to help you become a more authentic leader engage with us at gravitasdetroit.com.

Jan Griffiths: 00:43

Hello, today, we have two guests on the Finding Gravitas podcast. And we're flipping the script, which is something that I love to do you know, I'm all about breaking the mold. Well, here it is today. I thought it was time that instead of talking about what we think Gen Z wants from leadership in the workplace, why don't we just ask them? And so I reached out to two extremely smart, young people, Gen Z's Yes, they are given the label that I know you guys don't like the label. But there it is, that I have known through my experience in my time with Wayne State University. I sit on the advisory board for Wayne State for supply chain management. And I'm thrilled to engage with the students. And that's where I learn a lot about how they learn how they work, how they want to work, the culture they want to work in, and what they expect from leadership. So today, you're going to meet Delaina Yatoma , and Luke Tappen and we're going to have that discussion about exactly what it is they expect from authentic leaders in the workplace. So pay attention. Let's start off with Delaina, welcome to the show.

Delaina: 02:13

Thanks, Jan, for having me. It's an honor. Honor to be here with you.

Jan Griffiths: 02:19

Oh, I got to chill when you said that. Thank you. And I know that you're an avid supporter of the podcast. And thank you for all your feedback,

Delaina: 02:25

of course, of course.

Jan Griffiths: 02:28

So tell us a little bit about your background and your work experience Delaina.

Delaina: 02:32

Right, so I graduated in May of this year from Wayne State. I worked full time, as I was also studying full time. I began my work experience in the jewelry industry as a buyer working with a lot of luxury goods. And I moved into now the healthcare industry where I work as a data analyst.

Jan Griffiths: 02:59

Okay, great. Let's move over to Luke, Luke welcome to the show.

Luke: 03:04

Hi, Jan, thank you so much for having us on. Big fan of the of the podcast.

Jan Griffiths: 03:09

Thank you. Thank you. So Luke, tell us a little bit about your background.

Luke: 03:13

So, I grew up in and I was homeschooled in my family. And so after high school, I went to Schoolcraft Community College in Livonia. And then I started a business club there. So that kind of broke me out of my shell even more. And then I moved on to Wayne State, as you mentioned. And I graduated from Wayne State University, as you mentioned, in 2019, with global supply chain management and finance degrees.

Jan Griffiths: 03:46

Okay, and your work experience so far, Luke,

Luke: 03:48

I was blessed with the opportunity to work a lot in the automotive industry. So I started my first internship at the Automotive Industry Action Group. I was very thankful to get that opportunity, and then moved on to tier one suppliers as well as I worked in Hong Kong for a summer for a freight forwarder. It was a wonderful opportunity.

Jan Griffiths: 04:10

And now you're with a tier one, I believe

Luke: 04:13

that's correct. Right now I'm working as a commodity buyer for a major tier one autosupplier.

Jan Griffiths: 04:21

Great. So what I love is that you're fresh into the workplace. And I want to start off with a question about mission. I've been talking a lot lately about how important it is to have a mission as a company, as a company, as a department, you know, as the leader of a team and as an individual. Now, when I started my career, I couldn't care less about whether or not the company had a mission. I didn't I couldn't care less what they were all about. I just wanted a career I wanted a job and I wanted to move up the ladder as quickly as possible. Now, I know that from my daughter who's 19, that she one of the first questions she will ask about a company is what are they all about? What are they? What are they on this world for? What are they on this planet for? What are they trying to do? What's the mission? Are they you know, they're not trying to make a widget? What are they all about? And what's their brand, and the first thing you know you do is check all of this social media. So tell me a little bit, I'll go to Delaina first, how important is a company mission to you, when you're considering whether or not you should work for a company?

Delaina: 05:40

This is a concept that definitely stuck with me, as I began working in the workplace, it wasn't something I considered as much as a student. But I do believe that both successful business leaders and companies have clarity. They have clarity on who they are, what they want, and who they want to be. So once that is made clear, that drives maybe your decision if you can be a part of that mission. But I think it really clicks once you meet the people there. Once you once you get to adapt to you know what their values are, and how they empower their team. And I think that this speaks more than just the written mission on on their homepage.

Jan Griffiths: 06:38

So you're looking for do they really do what they say they're gonna right? Is it just a mission statement on a wall? Or is there something some purpose some deeper purpose, that they're all, you know, somehow articulated?

Delaina: 06:50

Yes. And I want those actions to speak louder than words. I love the diversity. But I want to see that I want to see diversity. But I still want to see that that common goal amongst its people, and its leaders, of course.

Jan Griffiths: 07:06

Yeah, well said, well said. What about you, Luke? How important is mission, company mission to you?

Luke: 07:12

Yeah, that's a very good question. I actually just got done listening to your last episode on mission. And I think that you had some really great points. I would like to echo Delaina's. Comment on clarity. Just for an example. I mean, we talking about the auto industry a lot. GM 000 policy, I think, is a good example of clarity. And, and the kind of mission that Gen Z might really appreciate and really gravitate to.

Jan Griffiths: 07:44

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's right. GM is a really good example. So you mean to tell me that if a company says that they want to be a world class manufacturer of a widget and create shareholder value? That that's not enough for you?

Luke: 07:57

Yeah. So I think that that's such a common type of mission or goal, or just mission statement. And I think it gets drowned out, because there's so much of that it could be a true statement. And it could be a good mission, in a sense, but it's not gonna you're not going to want to gravitate to that.

Jan Griffiths: 08:21

Yeah, it doesn't pull you in. Right. I mean, I you say gravitate, right, of course, that's gravity, gravitas, right? It's, it doesn't pull you into it, and you want to be part of something bigger, not just work for a company that produces widgets. Yeah, I totally get that. So let's, let's go a little bit deeper with that. Delaina. Obviously, when you're in the business world, making the numbers is important. But the mission is also important. And I have read some research that said that millennials, and Gen Z, will not spend the currency of their lives on something that doesn't have mission and purpose, and is much more than about about the numbers, but you have to balance it because at the end of the day, you still have a business to run. So what do you what do you think about that statement about balancing the ROI and the bottom line with the mission because it's okay to be mission driven. But you've also got to make the numbers too. But if you make if you just keep harping on about making the numbers and you don't talk about the culture and people side in the mission, and that doesn't work, either. So what give us your perspective on that.

Delaina: 09:35

Both are important. That's a true statement. people's mentality and their priorities about numbers versus, you know, that mission often are misaligned. The importance of them for Gen Z. I think the numbers are a little less important to us for where we are, especially Luke and I in our early careers. So once I'm exposed to the correct experiences, once I'm, you know, progressing in my role, trying to make positive change, building those relationships, I think naturally, the numbers become more concerning to me as my passion for what I'm doing grows. I actually want to give an example because I work directly with the OR, I cannot pronounce a single medical term on my first day of work. The numbers weren't that important to me, you know, I just wanted to do my job well, and I really wanted to learn. And today, eight months later, I care a lot about the numbers. I talked to people in on the billing team, I talked to our on campus finance team. And that was not part of my job description. That was not part of my role. But naturally, I cared I saw the number of patients we saw in the OR and how critical these procedures were, and supplies and really having everything there at the right time. Really, things that were critical to the role. Numbers then became important. So I think it should come more naturally versus being pushed down your throat.

Jan Griffiths: 11:14

Yeah, it's interesting, because what you're saying is the mission drives the behavior, which in turn drives the numbers, which I believe is absolutely right on. And a lot of companies drive the numbers hard with hard goals and expectations, thinking that that will drive the behavior, which will then achieve the mission. And it's it's sort of ass backwards, isn't it?

Delaina: 11:39

A little bit, and I think there's a right time for that. I think that pressure is appropriate, at some some point of your career, but as you know, kind of entry level? I don't see it necessary at that point.

Jan Griffiths: 11:56

Luke, you've had experience in automotive, automotive is known for being about the numbers and driving the numbers hard. What's your perspective?

Luke: 12:04

May I ask a clarifying question on the numbers?

Jan Griffiths: 12:07

Absolutely,

Luke: 12:08

Yes. So for the numbers, do we mean, I guess the return on investment for the company in and of itself for the shareholders.

Jan Griffiths: 12:19

It's the anything that's to do with the business metrics. So anything that's about you know, so it's, it's the the leader that's driving home, the numbers, it's about making money, it's all about making money and profit and creating shareholder value and nothing else, you know, that is the driving force. So when, you know, you've got leaders that drive businesses that way, and automotive has a lot of people that drive business that way, and mission is somehow secondary. So what's your thought on the focus on making the numbers versus the focus on the mission? Does that help?

Luke: 12:56

Ya that helps a lot, thank you so much. So I would say there are three things that I look for in a company, one would be benefits. So that could be a personal pay or vacation or anything like that. The second would be diversity of its supply. So how is it gonna stand up in in like a downfall of the economy or anything like that? Or a recession? How would it stand up in a recession. And then the third would be the mission. So for for the number side of things, I think the, at first Gen Z and, Gen Z, and millennials, and I'm glad that you tie those two together, cuz I'm right on the edge of both just barely a Gen Z. I think that for us, it comes at a personal time of when you start looking into stocks and retirement accounts and everything like that, once you start looking deeper into your plan for retirement, then you start getting a little bit more into the numbers and you want that the company to succeed in that way. But I think to to catch someone that's a Gen Z, potential employee, I think that the numbers are not going to be essential, really, in the least bit.

Jan Griffiths: 14:27

So you're probably not going to like it too much if you've got a manager breathing down your neck every five minutes about making the numbers and the metrics, are you?

Luke: 14:34

Correct. And I think that that's also not really, I wouldn't say it's fair to the company to say that you can't do that because I think it's very important that just because someone doesn't like that, it doesn't mean that it's not important, but I think that it shouldn't be stressed in a way that neglects or negates the mission.

Jan Griffiths: 14:56

Okay, well said, Okay, great. Let's talk about out flexibility, you know, and the hybrid team. There's, there's always in a pre COVID world, I think a lot of people thought, oh, you know, these millennials, they just want to, like, sit on beanbags and play football, foosball, or whatever it is, and drink lattes all day, right. And I laugh, because I've worked, as you guys know, I used to work at, Wework occasionally. And now I'm in a different co working space called Bamboo. And I have witnessed people of all generations working in this co working space, but there's a large percentage that are young, very young people, Gen Z, lot of startups. And, you know, I will, I will tell you, from my direct experience, that the people that are in there are working really, really hard. They're on their schedule, they don't like to come in early, I noticed. But they'll stay late when they need to. But if it's a nice day, and they want to go for a walk and park, they go for a walk in the park, but when they're on and they're focused, they are 100% focused. And I love watching that sort of work culture, because it just seems very natural and better than trying to fit this mold of you know, you got to be in the office at this time. And you got to leave at this time, and you can't leave before your boss. So tell me a little bit about what you would like to see the work place. In terms of the flexible work options on the hybrid team? What if you were going to design a work culture? And you had somebody let's put it this way, somebody said to you design the work culture for an organization and it goes into effect next month? What would that look like to you Delaina?

Delaina: 16:48

Wow, I could think about that question for a long time. But I'll tell you what's on my mind, right now. And it's a little bit about what you just spoke to, which is, you get your work done, when you feel good. If you're not feeling, you know, accountable or motivated, it serves no purpose to be present. And I think people reach that climax in different ways. And trying to attain it in, you know, one nitty gritty kind of culture, I don't think works, something I'm really a fan of is a timeframe to come in. So maybe like two hours. So you can come anytime between six and 6am, and 8am. But you're going to work the same number of hours. But if if you slept early that night, and you think you'll be productive at 6am, show up at 6am. If you want to come in later at eight do that, you are going to put in the work for the same number of hours. However, there's maybe some flexibility on the front end or, or the tail end. That's something that's been on my mind. Environment is a huge thing. For me personally, I spoke about it a lot, especially in my new role because there are very few windows where I sit environment is a big thing. I think that plays a huge role in your culture. And you may not crave that, you know, afternoon walk if you have the sun beaming in. I've been reading a lot and seeing a lot of new construction with games and like turf for golf in the workplace or even a keg. I did see that at a digital marketing company. I don't know how I feel about that. I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't like it. But I think there there needs to be boundaries. And if if your work hours are healthy, and you know, you're comfortable in your workplace, I think it's appropriate to do other activities once you leave. I have mixed feelings about about all the fun and games but definitely important are the hours flexibility in the hours and then environment for certain.

Jan Griffiths: 19:06

Okay, Luke, if you had to design a work culture next month. Tell me what that would look like.

Luke: 19:12

It's a very good question, Jan. I would say that it would very much depend on the company and what my employees are like, every work culture is going to be different because the employees are going to be very different. But I would say from a Gen Z perspective. I really do love the flexibility of that came about from this very unfortunate pandemic. But I think that being able to work from home is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Right now, as I've mentioned before the podcast recording started. I'm in Germany working and I'm working here for a month. So it's a great opportunity to kind of get out in to the world, if you want to travel a little bit, but at the same time, I'm going to be coming back and I'm not leaving, I want to make sure that I can get into the office, I was also blessed with being able to start my company with at least a month and a half before the pandemic. So I got to see a little bit of how they work in the office and make sure I really have that mindset of Work, Work work, but then relax. And I and it was already flexible in the sense that they would allow any parent with with children that needed to be dropped off at daycares that they could come in late or early or whatever. And that's really wonderful. So I think that led props to my company, that they've already implemented the flexibility before the pandemic. But I think that the the flexibility of being able to work from home is is so wonderful that I wouldn't want to trade that for the world.

Jan Griffiths: 21:00

I think managers and leaders today are going to have trouble if they are not comfortable in trusting their teams in the work from home environment, because it really does come down to trust and empowerment. And those who are strong on trust and empowerment, which as you know, are two very important traits of authentic leaders, then they'll be able to handle it. And they'll have people in the office when they need to be there not because you know, somebody said it's two days a week, and it's nine to four, or whatever it is. So it'll be very interesting to see how that evolves.

Luke: 21:35

Agreed. And I think it's very interesting, though, because I think Gen Z, coming into the workplace, it's really important to have those kinds of Water Cooler discussions and things like that. And so that there is something that's missed. But maybe there's room for creativity, and engaging employees.

Jan Griffiths: 21:57

Yeah, well said. It is a hybrid model. That's what we need, right? Just figuring out what it is. And then I think leaders have to try something, you know, they have to talk to their people try something and say, you know, what, if it doesn't work, we'll try something else. It's okay. You know, you don't always have to be right.

Delaina: 22:14

Do you know what I was thinking about? As I was listening to you guys? Jan, you mentioned that you have to trust your employee. And trust is very important in order to maybe make that hybrid move. But what about the people for the past year who have been hired to a new role? Completely remote? You know, what are their expectations when they maybe leave that job and then are searching for another job in three to five years? Or, you know, what's their mindset after they had that experience? And what does that look like, for the future for HR for the hiring managers for the expectations of the employees? That was really heavy on my mind while I was listening to you guys talk.

Jan Griffiths: 23:01

Yeah, yeah, I think there is definitely a point where people need to come together. I believe that it will force leaders to be more intentional about bringing teams together for collaboration, there will be events, knowing that some people were hired during COVID. Some people were hired and have never actually set foot in to the office, right? That forces the leader to be very intentional to say, look, you know, what, Tuesday afternoon, we're having lunch, and we're going to focus on something I don't know, whatever, but it's gonna be very intentional. It's gonna force them to be intentional, if they want to make this work. Otherwise, people are going to feel adrift, and they're going to leave. And right now, it's all about attraction, and retention. Let's switch into well, it's all leadership related. But let's talk about an authentic leader. I know that you've both read the 21 traits of authentic leaders. I'd like to know what do you expect from a leader? Let's start with Luke this time.

Luke: 24:10

I think that leadership from, to quote an article from the Harvard Business Review, or not quite quote it, summarize it. Leadership really falls down into categories of power and attractiveness. Both of those, I guess, would include pros and cons. And I think that leadership needs both. So power can be a charisma, some confidence, and I think we need that in a leader. Anyone that's going to follow someone isn't going to follow someone that doesn't show confidence. In addition to that, they need this attractiveness of approachability and agreeableness to an extent, but it can't get out of hand, either. So I think that you need a both of both.

Jan Griffiths: 25:05

yeah, I like that. And when you first said attractiveness, at first I was like, what? What? What do you mean they gotta be good looking? But that's not what you meant at all. And I get I totally get what you mean, right? It's, no sorry.

Luke: 25:22

It's an interesting way of saying it.

Jan Griffiths: 25:24

Yeah. I know. But but but you're talking about people that attract people to them. They pull people into their position, right.

Luke: 25:34

That gravitas.

Jan Griffiths: 25:36

Oh, there it is there it is. Yeah. No, but you're you're you're right. It's the certain people have that personality where you, you feel because they're confident and comfortable in their own skin. Right. And they exude this, this warmth and kindness, you feel safe around them. So you're attracted to them. Did I did I summarize?

Luke: 26:03

I think that's very good. It kind of summarizes both sides, the power and attractiveness, because, you know, I think that there can be a gravitas or a gravity to people that just have power. But that can turn very ugly, very fast. And not to get off topic from the work life. But I've been listening to another podcast, it's very separate from work. But it basically this podcast that I was listening to, was showing it was a journalistic view of a church that was the rise and fall of a mega church. And the the leader, the pastor had the power side. But there was a lot of negative things about this leader and there was an unfortunate downfall, because of this leader, that had hurt a lot of people. So just to kind of bring that back, there can be a lot of attractiveness in a say, and a sense, from power and being able to exude confidence. But you very much need to have some sort of approachability and humility. It's never a one or the other. You have to have both.

Jan Griffiths: 27:16

Yeah, you have to lead with warmth.

Luke: 27:19

Correct.

Jan Griffiths: 27:21

Yeah, there's warmth, there's competence. There's warmth and competence. And you have to lead with warmth. Because if you don't, it goes right to establishing trust, right? If you come across with, you know, those people that that you meet right away, and they go, Hey, I'm the vice president of blabbity, blah and X company, it's a 10 50, whatever, mil billion dollar company, right? They you immediately go, ugh. And then if they try to follow that with warmth, it doesn't work. But if you meet somebody and they say, hi, you know, I'm Luke, how you doing right? And then during the conversation, you find out that they actually have power because of their position that that's a whole different thing.

Luke: 28:05

Yeah, I would say even that that's not as common as you'd think. It's a very great thing to find when you can find that.

Jan Griffiths: 28:15

Yeah, yeah, well, that's ego, you know, people have driven a lot by egos. We all have egos, you know, good and bad. All right. So Delaina, tell us, what do you expect from a leader?

Delaina: 28:28

All of us are human. I should say that first. But leaders who are relatable, in reason and purpose, I think are incredibly easier to follow. And to be inspired by. We talked a little bit about clarity earlier in the show. And I think purpose is tied into that. I like leaders who maybe at the start of their day, ask themselves, how do I want to be remembered? How do I want to make an impact on other people's lives? How can I help those around me really realizing their purpose on earth and pushing the limits of like, the greatest version of themselves. And I think leaders who practice and embody those things are the best to be around and create, like high performers around them as well. Something that even happened today with being adaptable, and being that relatable leader, you know, Jan and I were speaking and, and I thought that this podcast may not have been possible at this moment. And she brought me back to Earth and showed that, you know, we'll just make it work we we will find a way and that inspired me to feel even more accountable to make it work. And, and she led by example, and you know, it trickled down to me. So I think leaders who really show that purpose vocalize it and embody it are the best of their kind.

Jan Griffiths: 30:07

Here's something that I believe in passionately, is reverse mentorship. And I think you guys have heard me tell the story. But several years ago, in my corporate job, there was a young woman, Ill call her out Danielle Leone, she's gonna hate me, I call her out all the time. But there's a blog on my website about it. And I was always very impressed with the way that she questioned me. Always very respectful. But she was genuinely, you know, wanted to know more about what I did and how we did it. And she was helping me get ready for an industry presentation. And I was tired. You know, it was a Friday night, I was tired. And she says, Well, I think you can do better on that that part, you know, let's do that again. I'm like, really, God, you know, youre young girl go out and go to the bar or something. Leave me alone, right. But we developed this wonderful relationship where I learned so much from her. And so often, when you talk about mentorship, it's the more senior level person sitting down with the younger person saying, I, let me tell you, you know, let me share with you and impart my knowledge to you young one, right. And that's not you know, that I'm all about everything being equal, I like things to be equal. Well, if some person elevates themselves on this platform, that they think that they have all the answers, and they're going to impart that knowledge to you, you know, they do themselves a disservice, because they shut the door to any fresh eyes or any input that you have. So I'm a firm believer in reverse mentoring, and I'd love to see more of it, I see a few companies catching on to it now. But again, it takes a leader who's comfortable in their own skin to be able to receive that feedback. And it has to be delivered respectfully. So tell me your thoughts on reverse mentoring. And have you actually experienced that in your career? Let's stay with Luke time. Go ahead. Luke.

Luke: 32:13

Yeah, I think that the reverse mentoring, especially what you had mentioned about yourself, and Danielle, ties back to the mission. I think that the reverse mentoring and the questioning really proves that Danielle was in line with your mission. I don't think that you're going to get a lot of questions or criticism or healthy criticism unless someone is in line with that. First, I'd like to say that it proves that the mission is really important. And that's what really ties it all together.

Jan Griffiths: 32:47

Have you had a mentor at all?

Luke: 32:49

I personally haven't had one in particular. But I've been very blessed with some managers who would ask me what questions I might have. So even bring my questions out. Because maybe I don't know what questions I have. But I know there's something there that maybe I just don't know what to ask. And so maybe there'd be a manager who asks me, you know what, I thought of something that it brings out my question for me.

Jan Griffiths: 33:21

Yeah, that's great. I love that. Yeah. Delaina.

Delaina: 33:24

First of all, I know we're Gen Z, but we don't have cooties. So yes, you could, you could receive feedback from us too. I think it's an honorable role to have. And I have experienced it. And it's great in a lot of ways, but especially because you're useful in a way that you previously wouldn't have known that you could be. A lot of things that I thought may have been obvious to this leader that I experienced reverse mentoring with, were not obvious. And I was a little bit shocked by it. Sometimes it was funny. Other times, we had to get serious and clarify that the language that we use, or even our facial expressions sometimes are are not as obvious as we think they are. And I think that having that reverse mentoring relationship is a great thing in the workplace. And it's just all around great. I had it with a woman so I, I especially appreciated it for that reason. And she actually was a guest on your show. So she's a great leader, obviously. And she has some awesome authentic leadership characteristics.

Jan Griffiths: 34:52

Good, that's good to hear. Yeah. I always ask my guests how do they start their day? So I'm going to ask you guys the same question. So Luke, how do you start your day?

Luke: 35:04

Would you like the answer that is, how would I like to start my day? Or how I do start my day?

Jan Griffiths: 35:12

I is all about being real and authentic, my friend, how do you really start it.

Luke: 35:16

So I think that depends on if I got a good night's sleep, I think that it all falls down to that. If I did not get a good night's sleep, a lot of times, I can roll off my bed, start work, and then get coffee later. And that's never a good thing. I know it. But sometimes it just happens. Other days. I've actually. So I'm a Christian, and I have a someone that went to my church. When I was younger, he went to a college for communications and other things like that. But he has a podcast for productivity from a Christian perspective. I went through a little class of his. And it was really cool that he had a morning routine set up. And I tried to follow that actually. So it's exercise, it could be praying, it could be reading the Bible. But I think that always helps me align. So if you're not religious, just meditating in some way or getting a few minutes without your phone too. So that's a big part of what his class was, is, get up and spend whatever amount of time that you decide, but without your phone, without any distractions. So I think that's important.

Jan Griffiths: 36:34

Yeah, so setting up your mindset, setting up your day for success, right? Yeah. Delaina?

Delaina: 36:40

I have, surprisingly, a very similar routine to Luke. One thing definitely is for sure, I do not start my phone with my day. So to be extremely descriptive. My Alexa speaker, slash alarm clock wakes me up in a very peaceful way, it starts quiet and slowly the volume increases. That actually has helped me because when my alarm was on my phone, there are just so many temptations to start looking through your phone. First thing. I also embrace some kind of, you know, little scripture, I have a quote, a little quote book next to my next to my bed that has the date. And that's usually a short read. And then I like to go downstairs for just a couple minutes before work. I don't before I leave for work, I don't eat breakfast. But oftentimes my dad is downstairs and I really take advantage of the time to talk to him. See what plans he has for the day. And then I also kind of get to clear my mind and think about what I have planned. So that's always been part of my routine, because he used to drive me to school when I was young. So you know, I think that routine has stuck with me, and I'll miss it when I no longer live at home.

Jan Griffiths: 37:58

Yeah, that's great. That's very interesting.

Luke: 38:01

I love what you said too Delaina. And I think it all just comes down to no phone. And then it doesn't have to be a long time that you're up doing stuff. But just having a routine of doing something without your phone and setting your mind right each day. That's really the goal. I think that that's what we really need to get to.

Jan Griffiths: 38:22

Yeah, I think a lot of our listeners are going to be surprised by that. Right? I think there's this perception that Gen Z, you wake up and you're like I immediately in the digital world, right? And it's the worst thing you could do for your for your day, because you've got to set yourself up for success.

Luke: 38:37

in true. You know, to be honest, that that does happen. But agree, I agree that, you know, if we don't do it, you're going to be set up for success. But it certainly does happen. And you can fall back into that. But at least for myself, it's easy to either think maybe maybe a little nervous about some meetings at work and you you look at your calendar and you start looking at some emails, or you could just be on social media, and then you know, you get dragged down that endless hole of scrolling. So I try to limit that as much as possible.

Delaina: 39:13

Yeah, I'll be honest, on the weekend, I do like to sit in my bed on my phone, or play music that I like and open up my drapes. But there's a time and place for that on a work day, that's not how I choose to start my day, but there are some days where I do embrace that, you know? Yeah.

Jan Griffiths: 39:38

Well, you got to relax. You know, the another question I always ask my guests, because they tend to be senior leaders, right? And I say what advice would you give to your 25 year old self? And the reason I asked them that question is with you guys in mind, right that you're going to be listening and that you get something from that. And so I gotta flip the script on that design. Right? So I'm going to ask you, what advice would you give to senior level leaders in business today? Luke.

Luke: 40:13

You know, I'm gonna bring this back to my first job at a movie theater. I've realized sometimes that higher up leaders are out of touch with starter roles, or other roles that are not in management. So in a movie theater, you could have a manager or supervisor that kind of maybe they started where you started. But they've forgotten what it's like in the day to day, and they may push you or they might expect certain things of you, where, you know, the people that are on the ground level, just don't don't understand how they would expect to get something done. Because maybe there's a process that isn't really efficient. So I think, really getting down with the entry level or starter positions and understanding what it's like to be using the processes that are put into place. I think that's very important.

Jan Griffiths: 41:15

Yeah, Delaina.

Delaina: 41:17

The piece of advice that I would give to today's leaders, senior leaders, would be to be more honest and vulnerable, with your struggles. With your failures, I think that in doing so, you not only help others learn from your mistakes, but you're more relatable. And you open a door to conversations and opportunities that may have not previously existed when you set yourself on this pedestal. So I think that I've connected best with leaders who are honest in in those experiences. And, and oftentimes, they embody, not not only do they share those experiences, but they're also awesome listeners. So they get the chance to learn more about me, or more, you know, about really anyone on their team, once they can open their ears a little bit, you know, share those experiences with us, but definitely open our open their ears so that they can learn who we are and what we're made of. And I think that's, that's really important and appreciated in leaders. And then for a little bit of a twist. I think, when you're a senior leader, just don't forget to embody, you know, who you want to be. Like, by living your future truth. I hear a lot of leaders talk about, you know, like, when I'm retired, I'm going to do this or when I have this much in my bank account, this is what I'm going to do. And it's, you know, sometimes a turn off. I hear I hear that often. So, you know, just live your future self, today.

Jan Griffiths: 43:04

Boy, I love that. That's great. That's great. I want to go back to to your answer for a moment Luke. Because I'm think I'm thinking about it. I'm processing it, right. And as a senior leader, my first response to that is to push back on it right? And to say, I can't possibly be down there in all those entry level jobs, understanding what's going on, what do you mean, but I think if, and correct me if I'm wrong, and I know you will, I think what you're saying is, and I've seen this many times in my career, right, you'll see decisions being made in the C suite, right, without any regard for what's happening, or how that manifests at the working level, right? So leaders really need to open up the communication lines, and don't make decisions in a vacuum in a conference room without understanding the impact that they will have throughout the organization. Did I did I get some of that right? I want to be sure I understood it properly.

Luke: 43:05

No, that's very correct. I love the way you summarized that. I think that maybe the words I chose, were maybe not the best. Um, I don't expect leadership leadership to be watching over employees. I think they need some autonomy. But I think one good example and I'd love to give credit to my company, for this is one time, there was a lot of changeover, a lot of different things that are happening for our positions. And we were asked or our managers were asked to get each ground level worker to give them a percentage of time that they're spending on each task that they're doing. And it's an example of basically understand at least trying to understand what time is being spent. So that could also kind of help us find areas where processes are inefficient. So I think at least, like you said, communication streams if you can open up communication streams, and at least understand where every employee is. That's really helpful.

Jan Griffiths: 45:23

Okay, well, it has been an absolute pleasure having you both on the show and sharing your your very open and honest perspectives. It's very much appreciated. I think it's extremely valuable to leaders today. So Delaina thank you.

Delaina: 45:39

Thank you so much, Jan. I know our listeners can't see us. But it's been all smiles this whole time. And it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much.

Jan Griffiths: 45:49

Thank you. Luke, Thank you very much for your time today.

Luke: 45:53

Thank you so much, Jan, I've missed talking to you. So I'm very glad I got the opportunity again.

Jan Griffiths: 45:59

Yes. And I think you know what, Luke, you and I shared a stage once together, didn't we?

Luke: 46:03

We did, we did.

Jan Griffiths: 46:06

The ISM conference, and I think we, I think we will do it again. And then maybe we'll get Delaina up there with us next time.

Luke: 46:14

That'd be great.

Delaina: 46:15

I'm in, send me an invite. I'll be there.

Jan Griffiths: 46:19

Alright, well have a great one. Thank you again,

Luke: 46:22

Thank you so much again.

Delaina: 46:22

Thanks.

46:27

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